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I like edits or at least the theory behind them. I make typos. I want to fix the typos. However, @fiatjaf has convinced me that they're bad. His editing and the gamification of his edits are fun, but if hundreds of people in my feeds are doing this, then it would immediately degrade my experience. I would hate it. It would be annoying. I now see edits as an attack vector and a performance degrader. Maybe we need a maximum number of edits? 3? I don't know. I'm just thinking out loud. Maybe we just do away with them altogether? πŸ‘€ Thoughts?

Replies (51)

Fiatjaf can be very persuasive. On the edit featureβ€”it’s a good example of something users value. People are already paying for it, and it fits well with the idea that users, not centralized entities, should make decisions about their content. Beyond that, there are so many ways Nostr could grow. Imagine features like markdown support, smart widgets, Taproot finance, global naming, censorship-resistant DNS, Git integration, and personal storage. These kinds of tools could make Nostr even more useful and flexible for developers and everyday users alike. Nostr was designed to be a place where ideas could evolve quicklyβ€”different from Bitcoin, which thrives on stability. While some folks in the community are cautious about adding new features, it’s worth keeping an open mind. The right updates could make Nostr much more competitive without losing what makes it special.
I'm firmly (and I mean FIRMLY) against the idea of restricting edits or deletion. Sure, taking back something you previously said is alright but if you have a lot of takes in the past that you don't want to keep online, you're going to look really bad. Plus, it's a major privacy concern. I've made posts in the past that were before I learned the importance of privacy. If I couldn't delete them, I'd be keeping myself open to doxxing, not to mention potential embarrassment. Some posts people make can also damage their reputation. If they made a comment that was written in frustration (or even under the effects of exhaustion or alcohol), their entire reputation could be irreparably damaged if edits and deletion didn't exist. I mean, we see how easily people get canceled for comments they made years ago and forgot about, and society today tends to not accept apologies even when they're legitimate and genuine. So yeah, no edits/deletion = no use for me. I like Nostr but if a basic function of user control and privacy isn't possible, I will not use it. It's objectively a bad thing and that's a Nostr hill I will die on.
Another view point. When you talk face to face to a person or a group of people, once you say something it can’t be edited or deleted. Although a face to face conversation flows at a much faster pace than typing a post online. Not having the ability to delete or edit may make people think more before pressing the send button. You have the time to do so. I am still open minded about having edits / deletes.
NO EDITS, NO DELETES
Derek Ross's avatar Derek Ross
I like edits or at least the theory behind them. I make typos. I want to fix the typos. However, @fiatjaf has convinced me that they're bad. His editing and the gamification of his edits are fun, but if hundreds of people in my feeds are doing this, then it would immediately degrade my experience. I would hate it. It would be annoying. I now see edits as an attack vector and a performance degrader. Maybe we need a maximum number of edits? 3? I don't know. I'm just thinking out loud. Maybe we just do away with them altogether? πŸ‘€ Thoughts?
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I think that is the edit answer. Allows the edit with chain of changes, or delete replace, depending on how the relay wants to handle it. Backward-compatible, accommodate simple fixes, or in a system that wants to be a mini GitHub for every post they can, use nip 37 to do that on their client relays. This is how I understand it as put forward. Just a matter of getting the clients to onboard it. See my other mock ups for Primal to adopt.
I'd ABSOLUTELY say no edits. I think it's part of the ethos of Nostr--and a reminder that Nostr is different--it's about privacy, and freedom of speech. No edits are a part of that-- Just like in real life--once you say something, you don't get to pull it back. Yes, you can apologize but your words are forever. So it is with Nostr. Think before you speak--both IRL and on Nostr.
I say, Yes to editing on the client layer, because typo. But, I say NO to edits on the protocol layer. There is a greater value to the protocol for the permanance of the notes than to a flexible note for the one user. Here's my thought process and where I arrived: I want to know that the post I'm looking at is the post that was placed, and the comments are about this version of it, and the repost are about this version of it. That's important to me as a community observer. As a contributor, I want to fix my typos. So, on those times that I look back and see a typo, it's usually right after I post it and before anyone has engaged with it. I just pop over to Nos.social, open the post. Copy the content. Delete the post. Go back to Primal, make sure it deleted, make the post anew with the typo fixed, and resubmit it for all to see without the typo. That workflow could be provided by Primal. Primal could let me "edit" whereby my original post would be deleted and the new version would be submitted as a new post. After my edit is ready, Primal tells me it's about to request relay deletion of the original post and submit this new version of my post, to which I confirm. That ability could expire after 5 minutes or some short term useful time limit, at the client level. But, I as the user am not inclined to do that anyway after someone has engaged with it. I'm more likely to just post a comment with the whole "I mean *typo." if it's even worth it. This is the case because the note's consistency after engagement is more valuable to the community than my ability to fix the typo is to me. This suggested functionality on Primal or any client is my ideal workflow on the protocol, while preserving the important features yet accommodating the necessary one for user experience.
We had this debate years ago on the Steemit blockchain... There's what I believe to be a very simple solution. Initially, Steemit allowed editing for typos and second thoughts for a brief span (~10 minutes?) after posting. As an author, I wanted complete control in perpetuity over my work, and fought for that outcome tirelessly. The final solution?πŸ€” Versioning. Each new edit is saved as a serialized version of the original post. Anyone seeking the "truth" about the ugly, typo-ridden original is welcome to dig back to ground zero, as nothing is deleted, while serious authors can fix typos they may have missed years later.πŸ˜ƒ
Great insight. I like both, but for different purposes. At a protocol level it's oft best to accommodate client desires openly and flexibly and simply. Do you see a fiatjaf describes Nip37 as offering the best of both worlds to the clients/relays on how they choose to handle it, with the end goal keeping a simple flexible protocol? Clients need flex to accommodate infinite use cases. That's the tough job of a protocol.
I hate reading a note, to which I wrote a word wrong or for some reason, I β€œate” a letter. So, editing would be valuable - and I wish it was possible to see this tool acting on @primal; my favorite client. I don’t know the size of the impact that this would cause, but for sure, a test in practice could be done; and if it is found that it is bad, excluded later.