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↩ replying to nobody
LOL I have lived in anarchistic communities were gangs were supposedly "in charge" of the security. Never had any problem with them. In fact I saw them helping the poor and trying to promote civilized behavior among neighbors. In contrast, the government mafia, the police, every time they came they created serious troubles and I saw them abusing the citizens many times. You guys tell a lot of tales to yourselves in your heads to keep their fragile "reality" alive.
↩ replying to xiangcai
Every individual practicing total sovereignty on themselves. That's what it is, you nailed it. You only need one thing to do it: wanting to do it. How is it done? Do not accept any imposition. Do not accept that which violates your free will. Do not violate others' free will. It's that simple. Anarchy is a state of mind. When enough people share that state of mind government simply disappears.
For ancaps, there are ideas out there about how to decentralize and privatize essential government functions but it's pretty much based on a faith that the market will provide the innovation needed to meet those demands. Most of them argue that the worst thing that could happen is already the status quo. Sometimes the warped perspective sounds a little culty to be honest and I say that as a moderate libertarian.
Look at this video about private law society, it's fascinating: The question of "who will protect my rights" is equivalent to "who will build the roads". The point of a private law society (in its different forms) is that free competition by security providers will give you cheaper and higher quality security (deflation). Government monopolies and regulations do the opposite
All societies naturally trend towards some form of hierarchy/governing body. Even animal species have a natural order of hierarchy. If government was completely eliminated, some replacement form of a governing body would eventually form in its place. So there could never really be prolonged anarchy in the true sense of the word.
↩ replying to iefan πŸ•ŠοΈ
Yep, I’m not denying many of todays government functions are useless, but complete anarchy is almost impossible to sustain. In an anarchic state all it takes is one bad actor/group to commit a crime before people decide they need some form of organized protection. A group of protectors forms and needs to be paid by the people they are protecting one way or another. For the group of protectors to work efficiently they need a leader/leadership group. Now you have an armed group with a leader. Who will the leader be? Will he be self appointed? Will he be elected? How do you keep the leader from abusing this position? What are the crimes this group should protect against? Who will decide whether someone is guilty? Shouldn’t there be a process for the people to decide the answer to all those questions? Shouldn’t the people be able to decide who runs the courts and what the laws are? Eventually legal system forms, courts form, an election process forms, rule making forms. Now you’ve already left anarchy and have entered the β€œnight-watchman state” AKA minarchy. One bad person enters this minarchal system, abuses it and it expands - β€œwhat if I can convince these people to give me a little more money and in exchange I’ll build some roads for them, I’ll pick up their trash, etc?” People will buy in. The rest is history.
↩ replying to γ‚„γƒˆγƒŠ
We already have a "replacement", it's called "contracts". And it's been done for thousands of years. Hierarchies are OK, but giving them power that's another story, that's called "rulers". Also what do you think happens when you're far away from modern cities and the presence of the State is nothing but symbolic? Do you believe everything magically disintegrates into chaos? lol
Sometimes I wonder what a world would look like if everyone had a magic wand to make them invulnerable to attack of any sort. Then there would be no need for the state or protection agencies or whatever. Maybe this is the utopia that anarchists yearn for? Obviously this is impossible. But perhaps it is possible to move in that direction by giving us tools so we can better protect ourselves. One might even say that this is precisely the reason that Freedom Tech exists.
↩ replying to iefan πŸ•ŠοΈ
We can already see the world as a Stateless world if we begin considering the current governments as very old companies that got really good at brainwashing the masses. The natural evolution is opting out of them, and opting in alternatives. Oligarchy may make a comeback, then cooperativism, then totally decentralized free market, then complete autonomy of the individual. It will be gradual and many systems will be overlapping for a long time. Meanwhile the State cult will insist that they're still relevant and "the only" system in place.
I'm am anarchocapitalist, but at the community level. Communities can decide their own rules and have pacts, trade agreements, accords, etc with other communities or declare accordance with simple predefined standards. Individuals can choose which communities suit their ideals. This optimizes human choice and allows some to opt to be under their chosen governance.
Have you talked to any anarchists directly about this? I can try to paraphrase, but it'd really be better to get the info from a primary source, or at least a secondary source. The idea is that people generally think that living under ganglords would be bad. When thugs come in and try to shake down the people, the people would spontaniously bond together to deal with the aggressors. So in a sense, it is gang rule, but the gangs would only exist for moments, when needed, then everyone would just go back to doing their own thing. It centers around the idea that everyone will do what's in their best interest and forming gangs to kill one another really isn't, nor is accepting gang rule (in the traditional sense). I'm not supporting their philosophy, just explaining it as best I understand it. Also, most the replies here seem to be mainly from people who oppose anarchism without having actually talked to any anarchist, so those replies hold no weight in my mind, but everyone is entitled to their own opinion, no matter how well informed.
Check out
The Anarchist Library
The Anarchist Library
The Anarchist Library
 if you’re really interested. Anarchism is predicated largely on the restructuring of hierarchies and rejecting unjust hierarchies and structures of power. This includes things like private property (aka property for the purpose of profit, as opposed to personal property). It’s not to dissimilar to communism in a lot of ways. Unless you’re talking about AnCaps in which case yeah they basically want to be beholden to a mafia of sorts.
We don’t necessarily need to go back to a pre-state form of organization. Maybe developing a stronger and egalitarian system based on regional governance and supranational structures could provide a good alternative for the current state-centered system, and could be more viable in dealing with the rapidly changing political and social contexts of ou time. The Westphalian framework on which the current system is based is outdated, distorted and falls short from addressing the challenges and imperatives of our time (climate change, human rights, technological development etc). In my opinion the concentrated Nation-state model is neither viable nor compatible with the values, ethos and aspirations of humans at this stage of history.
Great discussion! I'll just add a few #anarchy memes and quotes here: https://image.nostr.build/7128708a937c49f831fdae0a58f8e9167bad384a8597d42c77191ab29000ab79.jpg#m=image%2Fjpeg&dim=1024x768&blurhash=%23CAKjc*F9ra3DQMMMyWAoNt7ayM%7BWBj%5Bj%5Bt7j%5BofM3MMR7kTpFx%5BxuofkAjZoMRjaxofj%5BofWBt7afjbaybGbFayj%5Bj%5Bjsa%7BkBofj%5BayayWBjtaySvXNtQn%2Cepe%3BRjWBjZ&x=56a87e04a9e081472afbc8bedc1a237b674eb223f170cb6ccc735467c9eefdfb https://image.nostr.build/aa9c7f63177f103102c575415a3f29fc471e0f0d6d65a51273a58b8ad889dbbb.jpg#m=image%2Fjpeg&dim=480x385&blurhash=%23KI4%3BL00_34n-%3BROx%5DIUtR%7EVIUI%3BxaNGxuV%40kCV%40V%40M%7BNGt7ofkCs%3AayRkxvV%40Rjt7e.WBj%5BjZWCozofoLj%5BjZWBWCj%5BjZafofoJj%40j%5Bayfkoft6RiayofjskCayayofoL&x=5858045d62ed86acc5ea9c106558e041536570594281dcfa543bb30ac694c841 https://image.nostr.build/ee3ef6c0b89fea341f8b9976e5d2c7d94404878039e7f274b6530adef1b98021.jpg#m=image%2Fjpeg&dim=387x403&blurhash=%7CFFhbN%5E40zx%5BMyt7I%3At6RkNaIq9uR%2Bw%5Dafofj%40kCGwJAeTRkoHWCRjRkoJ%3FG%250-Ps.ENozR-WCt6xtaLniWXIWoyxZs.oftmNHM%7CxZV%40Rkt6afay4noef%2Boe%251V%5BX9R%2Bj%5Dxas.R%2BIqj%3FxYs.kBR%2B9Ej%3FofafWYs%3AxZj%40oy&x=eb88c62d7145f56df824db4f3a206e8f4fc8fd369ddfce788fb74adcf60ee759 https://image.nostr.build/f0ec914424e8f1154347af3e7277cdf9224e285bd27ae0d742568daf210e6891.jpg#m=image%2Fjpeg&dim=959x959&blurhash=U5B3%2Bs%7EpDjj%3B%251%25KjsIV00IU%3FaM%7DocM%7DWB%251&x=d7712d9d01bfeb935a1e1c2c2af6d5a1d2e0c57a084168db624d16ce4db81aa4 https://image.nostr.build/338b3e5783509d3c185379eb4d19ccafe1dc3caae574ceb7f0fed0fe9308ae54.jpg#m=image%2Fjpeg&dim=480x477&blurhash=%7C5Ci%7E%3Bxu9F-%3BD%254nfQM%7Bay9Ft7-%3BxuIURjt7WB%25M-%3BRjIUIUM%7BxuWBRjWB%3FbRj%25MRjD%25t7RjayWBD%25t7M%7BM%7Bt7ofxut7Rj%7Eqofj%5BRjIUayRjWBRj00Rjofxu%25Moft7ofay%7EqWBRjj%5BM%7Bt7WBofIUM%7Bt7j%5BRjxuayofofRj&x=2c8b9782bfb8842346d14280c8652598c2f25af2894c1bad1134a5cd0c287308 https://image.nostr.build/0b9804afad97761d3c23560bd26beed10029ca0e8597c2a587bcee77b3768be3.jpg#m=image%2Fjpeg&dim=409x345&blurhash=%3B5RfkA00IT4nM_V%3Ft6xaRP%3FbM%7BD%25a%7BM%7Bayt7f7t7IUxut7IUt7RjRjWBt79FRjfkIUt7WBf6j%5Bt7kCRkf8t7RjWBt7RjWB00R%25_3oft7Rjofayae00%25MxuWBxuRjt7Rjt7%7Eqt7IUM%7Bt7t7f6j%5Bju&x=01e627105e62269a9ab42d87cc70d47276e1a260dad910031396d176cafe05f8 https://image.nostr.build/a982ab3952d2239e07021f9d7f0afea59994e17bb978ac1ed1f49fad6b20b691.jpg#m=image%2Fjpeg&dim=621x621&blurhash=UEE%7BkOM%7B00of%7EqRj-%3BofIUWBRjWBt7Rjt7WB&x=fec1154bd2719648fff1396a6a7de9af0a2dc7e692987974db9fb256db780914 https://image.nostr.build/11985e3aa4e4d3f4868d17bc42c242ef84f0441f482c53315356ebb9279607d7.jpg#m=image%2Fjpeg&dim=720x540&blurhash=%23BG%5B_.V%5BE0E0M_-rInxbM%7BRhkCImRjNFafWCWUs%3B%3FwR*IUxuM%7BNFV%5Daxxat8afxH%252jFaybERjWn9EoffkR%25xat6fkRjWCo%23ofInM%7CNFWAoLj%5Day00s%3BoLoKM%7CM%7Cxtt7s%3B&x=fcb86abb8012ebafccfc5679164a275c809b8de22546eeb2e136a8ae722d999b https://image.nostr.build/9752d0665d6be491b2228aed5660b222f219febd3b888a5646e5f2dff8764d07.jpg#m=image%2Fjpeg&dim=540x546&blurhash=%7CBE%7BUeWB0NRk4%3Bt6MxbG%24%7CV%40xZ-%3AWCIrRlngxYkC00WCxtbHxZoKx%5Bay9a9doe9Fj%5B%3FCs%3AtSNIRn_NM%7DaIxsRkWXIWj%3F-%3B%3FZt5xvj%5Bt5j%40E3Rks*DjRk_2a%7Dt7oKIUaeIV_2t5IBWCIWWDsjs.IpV%5BayD%25R-WBt5-%3AbHWB&x=09a0f97b743f7ac557b96fe5459711d27d8987afa9b58544df80fdacdd46abf1
Bitcoin. You control your money. Send it to whomever you want. Deal, collaborate, and lock funds with whoever you want. You hold the responsibility to secure it. People themselves figured out how to interact with each other efficiently and beneficially, increasingly so. Permissionless. Nostr. You control your identity. Talk about whatever you want, to whomever you want. No one can silence you. You hold the responsibility to secure it. People themselves figured out how to interact with each other efficiently and beneficially, increasingly so. Permissionless. Nomen. You control your name. Mesh internet network(s). You control your internet connectivity. Everyone is an ISP. Umbrel (and similar). You control your data. You're your own cloud/server, and service provider. Human beings are born free and strive to become free when there's a force that halts it. This is evident all throughout human history, and even now with the above mentioned examples in our cases/context. With that said. An extra note: The rise and fall of a government system is in the hands of the top force entity. The rise and fall of an anarchist/ancap system is in the hands of the people's voluntary collaboration.