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Today, I had a conversation with a friend's acquaintance who expressed a desire to "do something about social media, to create something that is ours." She was unfamiliar with Nostr and only vaguely aware of Mastodon, though she had heard of Bluesky and Threads. She represents the ideal target audience for Nostr. Once I explained our project, her excitement was palpable. Although initially skeptical about Bitcoin, she showed interest in an economic model not reliant on advertising and was open to exploring alternative models. Several key points emerged from our discussion. Firstly, the ease of joining and locating acquaintances on Nostr is crucial. For instance, the process of installing TestFlight, then navigating back to nos.social to click a link and install Nostr via TestFlight, proved challenging. Her attempt to Google Nostr nearly led her astray. @npub1a8jz...5pj4 i think, this underscores the need for someone with tech marketing/communications expertise to overhaul nostr.com. The current site should be repositioned as developer.nostr.com. We must simplify the process of finding and connecting with known contacts on Nostr. It's essential to communicate the value proposition of Nostr to new users, whether they learn about it through friends or media. Our focus shouldn't be on creating more content for Bitcoin enthusiasts, as there's already a plethora of information available for those familiar with wallet operations. Another aspect that stood out was Nostr's multi-app nature. Nostr isn't just Damus, Nos, Amethyst, or Habla.news. It's a platform where various apps can operate using the same data, contacts, and services, all under the user's control. For those with a developer mindset, the sheer breadth of projects within Nostr demonstrates the vibrancy and scale of our endeavor. Projecting this magnitude is crucial for attracting users who are deciding where to invest their time. I believe we could benefit from explainer videos that highlight why Nostr is both important and interesting. During our conversation, I showcased various apps: Primal for a web social feed, Habla and Yakihonne for longer-form blogging, Flockstr for events, Wherostr for geolocation, and Highlighter for layering different functionalities. These examples illustrate the diversity and versatility of our platform. I didn't delve into Nostr nests, marketplaces, Wavlake, Streamstr, and more, but it's clear there's much to explore. This conversation has led me to believe that we should proactively share the Nostr story, positioning it as the future of social networking. This approach will also help us differentiate from platforms like Threads, Pixelfed, Mastodon, and Bluesky. While these platforms are based on open protocols, they operate as single-app, vertical silos. Our unique offering is the unified 'login' across diverse apps, granting users not just control over their algorithms but their entire app experience. They can even use multiple apps simultaneously. The impact of a single Thai TikTok video in attracting a Thai user community to Nostr exemplifies the power of targeted storytelling. We should harness similar strategies to broaden our reach and influence. Talking about how this is a whole new way of social, not just one app.

Replies (96)

while I agree it would be good to have more content to explain nostr, it won't really matter given the current onboarding and product experience. it's way too confusing for folks, and generally not satisfying instantly. people will and do churn out. if there's one thing to focus on (for the social media use case) it's search. both for people, but more importantly, topics. Twitter won because of search. it wasn't a social network. it was an information network, and it excelled at real-time because of real-time search. that's a base requirement now. what nostr adds, and what will make it sticky, is the multi-app/use-case ecosystem. but each use case is going to have different needs for attracting people to it. search is table stakes for the social media one. it won't matter how good the tutorial content is until this is done right. nostr has the benefit right now of having a completely open and wild API. that matters as every other service is closing down. it's perfectly OK that we mostly have devs and bitcoin-obsessives at the moment. we have time to get all the kinks out and make something that's truly hard to replicate. where the only way to compete will be to join. View quoted note →
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↩ replying to jack
I don’t understand the obsession with getting my grandma on nostr. Products need to start with a very specific and clear target audience. Then build out after we satisfy the needs of that group. If the target is just people who want to do social media, we will most probably fail. Nostr was born from Bitcoiners, I personally believe we need to continue to serve that group. No shame in that, and nothing is wrong with this goal. Bitcoiners are people too, and trust me they have interests and hobbies beyond Bitcoin just like everyone else. Continue to serve them, give Bitcoin an application, build tools for Bitcoiners to sell their work. Others will join.
↩ replying to jack
in your opinion, what made onboarding on twitter so good, and what specific parts of onboarding in existing nostr clients (take Damus for example play the biggest role in people having second thoughts and drop off? is it complexity in language, are there too many steps to join, too little, or something missing completely?
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↩ replying to jack
guess which way do hundreds of millions Chinese youngests search? not Baidu apparently, nor Weibo (twitter alternative) Answer is Xiaohongshu, where real active young plebs sharing their daily loves or struggles! where there's a real active user base, it's the de facto search engine. Let's hope nostr would be the decentralized optimization.
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↩ replying to jack
I probably talk about the bitcoiner content too much, the problem is not at all that we’ve got tons of bitcoiners or that they’re talking about bitcoin too much. More it’s that it’s hard to discover the other people and conversations. The UX experience is where we need to do work. It’s not so much fun, but it’s what will make the difference. So when it comes to contact discovery, I’ve always wanted to do something Private Set Intersection. Anybody interested in working on getting PSI for privacy preserving contact discovery that we could use with Nostr? There’s code which does the first 90% of the work:
GitHub
GitHub - OpenMined/PSI: Private Set Intersection Cardinality protocol based on ECDH and Bloom Filters
Private Set Intersection Cardinality protocol based on ECDH and Bloom Filters - OpenMined/PSI
 Regarding search, my initial thought is throw elastic search at the problem. But then I’m wondering what LLM’s could do to make search better. I think we’d want to have multiple search providers with a common api, the way that Damus and others support plugging in to translation engines. I think the needs of search and indexing are different than a normal relay, and we probably need those broken out in to a separate service or an add-on which only some relays provide.
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↩ replying to xiangcai
WeChat has 1.2 billion users. Massive user data makes it easy to test products. The WeChat company relies on the WeChat payment method to survive, charging merchants a 0.2% handling fee. Ordinary users will be charged a 1% handling fee if they withdraw change from WeChat. The personal code does not charge any fees, but it only supports change payment and red envelope issuance. It does not support credit card binding payment methods, but the merchant code does support credit card payment methods and charges a 0.2% service fee. WeChat companies survive by collecting fees from WeChat Pay. Handling fees are charged 24 hours a day. A very profitable mobile payment platform.
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↩ replying to Scarlett
小红书(Xiaohongshu) is just a closed social media platform, no different from Twitter today. It cannot even be searched using traditional search engines such as Baidu (China's Google equivalent) to retrieve its content. It also lacks the strong interoperability and protocol-level openness of platforms like Fediverse and Nostr (just as Twitter and Reddit are becoming less open today). Since its inception, Xiaohongshu has never intended to easily share its internal user data with others. This user data is its most valuable asset, known as "私域流量(private domain traffic)". Its success in China is undeniable. Even if Chinese young people do not use Xiaohongshu, they know what it is because it is as popular in China as TikTok, Reddit and Twitter. Of course, the Little Red Book is criticised by just as many people for being "brainwashing", in the same way that most people treat TikTok, depending on how you use it. By the way, Chinese young people don't like 微信(WeChat). Most young people only use it because they "have to", as because it's everywhere in real life, whether it's for socialising or mobile payments. Just because they don't have a choice doesn't mean they like it.
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↩ replying to CXPLAY
and plus, Xiaohongshu has a similar growth path as nostr initially as a beauty enthusiasm circle, gradually every young girl and many boys log in to search everything in daily lives and most probably they'll get the right answers. which echoes jack's point that it's ok for nostr to be Bitcoin echo chamber and all we need is focus on the UX and make it accessible to massive mobile users who know nothing about technical aspects. image
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↩ replying to jack
Partially agree with both statements, but not convinced about the priorities. I think there is a bit of a state of operational blindness reached. At the very least, other questions should be asked like how do you guarantee equality and equal opportunities here, especially because Nostr could be more than social media. Also, external input should be considered relevant, and there should be the courage to incorporate it here. Right now, Nostr is a men's club, you can ignore that and continue to code into the void or start with a fresh infusion of healthy vitamins to heal and close this gap. There are both other needs these days from ppl outside and more similarities than you might think with the Bubblers. Building bridges, creating a healthy base for thinking and participation first? I'm still here with ideas for a broader focus on conferences to do that and also for clever PR and film, which can arise from it. Freedom here is real. But creating a healthy base should not be optional.
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↩ replying to Scarlett
The cash register system of American Wal-Mart supermarkets in China must be connected to WeChat Pay and Alipay payment methods, and Wal-Mart Supermarkets must pay a 0.2% channel fee to WeChat and Alipay. WeChat and Alipay payment charges are as follows: a handling fee will be charged for a single payment of more than 2 yuan, and no handling fee will be charged for a single payment of less than 1.9 yuan.
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↩ replying to Scarlett
What made you have the hallucination that "Xiaohongshu users are all illiterate"? Have you personally used it? Why do you compare WeChat and Xiaohongshu? They are completely different products, targeting different user groups. If you think WeChat has only developed to its current state through mobile payments alone, then you are completely mistaken. I suggest that you abandon your belief in WeChat and instead listen to the thoughts of young people in China. Young individuals tend to dislike clichés and platitudes.
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↩ replying to CXPLAY
I said WeChat relies on WeChat Pay to make money. I didn’t say WeChat is just a mobile payment method. WeChat is a mobile tool used by Chinese government agencies to monitor Chinese people. WeChat can bind social security cards and medical insurance cards. Little Red Book doesn’t work. Xiaohongshu does not have any advantageous products. What do you think is the difference between Xiaohongshu and TikTok?
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↩ replying to Hoshi
In China, Internet platforms must undergo CCP review and filing. Otherwise, it will not be listed in the mobile phone store. All social software platforms must be staffed by NSA computer technicians. Many Chinese engineers who write code are NSA agents. The same goes for Xiaohongshu. All social software must "politically moderate content". Xiaohongshu and TikTok are even more rubbish and shameless.
↩ replying to jack
Twitter is my #1 search engine because I know that the information is coming directly from the people I am following or will follow, and they are all on Twitter right now, and the data goes back more than a decade. The ability to mute anything or anyone I want for filtering is extremely important for improving the quality of the search results.
↩ replying to xiangcai
In fact, after actual use, I think the search function of Xiaohongshu is quite excellent. If an individual has enough knowledge and the ability to filter out junk information, then Xiaohongshu can be used as an excellent person-to-person search engine. (Of course, most people around me don’t have that kind of screening ability)
↩ replying to jack
Right now Nostr is what Gravatar AND Trust Pilot should have been. You don't need search to connect with content / people you love when you can find and follow them in any app/website (if that app chooses to integrated Nostr - which they should!) That following / timeline is then portable. "Oh I just saw a post from that guy I found on Walmart dotcom.. that comment he made about the weed whacker was hilarious.. oh! I better order more beans.. *navigates to Walmart dotcom*" People and communities sell products.. Advertising is still dying and dying faster and faster. Nostr should be marketed to brands. People can start discussions around products or a specific website and connect with each other. Nostr turns every piece of online real estate into a trusted open discussion with cryptographically proven identity. Welcome to Nike dotcom - log in with Nostr to see what people are saying about this products. •They can run a node on the site and add support to select third-party nodes for trust/backup/failsafes. •They can monitor comments and feedback in real time ON THE SITE with the MAJOR added value of people taking those social connections away from the site. •They turn EVERY customer into an influencer Sure clients can work on onboarding and search improvements but every social site is doing that 24/7.
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It's not lack of understanding what's needed for nostr dot com, it's time/resources. We'll get to it. Dedicating more resources to an overhaul and making the site more useful is why I put it under the official management of LNbits Inc. Once LNbits Inc's seed raise is complete, its a priority.
"How to bring the eternal september, to nostr." The post. To prevent what happened to so many other protocols like XMPP we must learn from the past and how nostr is different, and already set up to succeed. Nostr is not a Platform. It's a protocol The nature of Nostr's simplicity and use of zaps by the community means direct support for relays and content. Able to bypass future attacks. Which will inevitably come. Some of the venture capital, startup language you're using, strikes me as misplaced in the context of opensouce network design. This language is more at home in compliant environments with very different constraints. If i view your post as a suggestion for improving existing apps, its great. If i view it as an onboarding experience to nostr itself, i'm left confused. I have not felt the friction you mention, and i'm a coastline flying avian without thumbs ! Like Bitcoin, Nostr has one value proposition. Freedom. Otherwise it has nothing to offer. There is no other reason to use it besides being a pure expression of the internet viewing censorship as damage, and routing around it. It's a rather simple concept to explain in a few minutes and you either get it or you don't, because you are already familiar with or concerned about censorship. In the context of FOSS and activist protocols, a call for funding a specific marketing strategy or effort would have made more sense to me. There is no CEO or board or shareholder to appeal to for changes you want to see. Appreciate you, and appreciate you on nostr, and your energy, but i have to point out this use of language or we will waste time and energy by not being clear about specific implementations ON nostr versus imrovements TO nostr.
My experience as a decentralizion enthusiast who is fairly tech savvy and was excited about the possibilities of nostr: it has boomer energy, difficult discoverability (of people, topics, and all the awesome "apps"), it puts too much on the user. No ability to protect yourself from bad actors. Boomer energy: stuck on ideology in a faith without works kind of way. This comes from the Bitcoin mentality ie "this is the future, it's the way and the light" ...but it hasn't solved peer to peer completely after 15 years. Discover: search and community is lacking, reliant on hashtags you have to stumble on. User ask: average user is retarded, I'm retarded most days, just let me click around I don't want to write a program myself to do basic tasks. Good things: vibe is friendly, builders ship a lot and fast, zaps are cool, ui is better than blue sky, minds, mastodon, urbit etc
↩ replying to npub14j7y...antz
Well said! Plurality will only grow if the Nostr experience (and possibilities) gets good enough so users that dissent with the current dominant tendencies and ideologies find enough value. Nostr is currently great for Bitcoin/Privacy/Self-sovereignty enthusiasts but has yet a long path to evolve to attract other and more voices. We will perceive Nostr success when it’s hard to find any dominant tendency, basically when it becomes an interesting mess.
A lot of very smart ppl are hashing this out because it's a hard problem with many moving parts and unknowns. I only have questions. Growing nostr is three things 1) generate interest 2) onboarding 3) retention The landing page / nostr.com discussion is about 1) and 2) @jack is mostly talking about 3) View quoted note → As a product Nostr is an ecosystem with single sign-on not an app That is hugely beneficial for 1) Not so much for 2) Questions Are 1) and 2) the same website / landing page? If no is it better to have a separate website / landing page for 2) or push onboarding onto the clients? If yes is it more beneficial at this moment to optimize 2) for mainstream adoption or niche target audiences? And is it better for nostr.com to expose the ecosystem or guide toward the standard social media type applications (where ppl can get more help)? And should nostr.com handle account creation / point to an app that does? View quoted note →
We need to make the apps usable for normal people before we do a big marketing push. If we bring millions of people and they get a bad first impression, it will be hard to bring them back when the experience gets fixed. Even worse, they will spread the bad word across the internet. But yeah, nostr.com should definitely target average users in time. I would love to help with that project's design and UX. In my backlog, I have a project to visualize nostr, core protocol, and every nip. I was thinking of an interactive, engaging, and fun experience like this 3D journey
Three.js Journey
Three.js Journey — Learn WebGL with Three.js
The ultimate Three.js course whether you are a beginner or a more advanced developer
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I think X is much better than Nostr now that Musk is at the stearing wheel. It will take years for Nostr to become a true competitor to the centralized alternatives. (I’ve been here everyday for 11 months and my initial enthusiasm has waned).