Thread

I don't think I was clear in my wording. I meant bitcoin needs this battle just like it needed the block size wars, in order to become even stronger. Central powers will try to capture it, and they will fail. Freedom will win.

With the other 3 people using it

Saw a report a few weeks ago that, on average, 8 of 11 (now 16) signatures in any given ring were linked to the NSA....

Stupid laws like that apply to monero also.

Ok, but this is exactly the scenario Monero was built for. "We're banning invisibility cloaks. We better not catch anyone using an invisibility cloak!" Same energy

At least try making your FUD somewhat believable by learning how it works. You can't choose what transactions you are decoys for. That would also have zero effect on Monero's hidden amounts and receivers.

The point wasn't that they were choosing specific transactions, but that they were such a high percentage of the whole network that it resulted in that. The extent to which that participation was useful in undermining the network was undetermined.

Show us the report

If you have a link to tbe source of this statistic I'd be interested to read it.

I was wrong, or at least, passing on unverified info. Sorry. The info I shared was not from an article, but from a twitter account that has since been deleted. The post did include a link to this article:

WIRED

The Dark Web’s Favorite Currency Is Less Untraceable Than It Seems

Researchers point out serious gaps in the privacy promises of stealth cryptocoin Monero.

That's a different thing altogether.

Lol. Anonymity sets.

Even if only two people used Monero, it would be more private than Bitcoin.

Great retort. Very compelling.

Satire, or?

>opt-in privacy solution 1% of bitcoiners use correctly >Already small liquidity is split between multiple protocols >degrades over time "Lol. Anonymity sets."

Laughs in taproot multisig.

Parallel black market economies can and do thrive. I don't see why that's such an outlandish possibility in this case.

For basic necessities perhaps… even then is your local merchant or farmers market person gonna follow security protocol? Someone’s eventually gonna slip. It’s an easy programmatic hunt n kill for whatever gubment enforcement agency is deployed and it will most likely be private tech (see @Whitney Webb‘s recent article on Peter Thiels investments). They won’t even need to send an IRS agent. You’ll just get levy notice. We already know from the hearings the FBI is tracking all activity. This is easy policing especially in a CBDC existence. Outside of basic necessities, it gets even more hairy with other large asset purchases. I think there is a way to get ahead of it and it could be having a side pot with a trusted Custodian aligned in worldview (Strike or KingdomTrust perhaps) who has the resources to navigate the nonsense. Still, I feel like there are other solutions and financial instruments that could be created now so folks can continue to self custody and operate biz as usual in such an environment. Those with fatter stacks will be faced with getting a second passport in a more friendly jurisdiction (ElSalvador still has extradition) and leave the country till the dust settles and the BTC phoenix arises OR make offshore investments and repatriate back to the US for operating dough. When BTC goes to 1mm demand will create the way, but why not get ahead of it now? Anyone who is a student of history knows the mob will go to extremes to protect their hegemony. The small BTC holders are gonna cave under that pressure without options…meanwhile they seem content to go on meme-ing rather than game this stuff out together. We don’t win the monetary war that way. Doesn’t matter how good we are at homesteading and living in a blackmarket existence…which I’m all for by the way. Help me think through this.

I saw your note only now. I have the same worries. I'm currently reading this book

The Vonu Podcast

[Free] Vonu Books | The Vonu Podcast

Searching for high quality books/zines on self-liberation, including the book that inspired this podcast? Look no further. Download for free below ...

It discusses some options. It is interesting how everything is still valid or worse. But better in that we have Bitcoin and Nostr...

Took a listen to that book today. At first glance Im not sure that this dude's values would align with my priorities of being intentional about community, family, church, etc. However, I appreciated the escape hatch ideas. Im more interested with how to create financial instruments and/or align with larger financial institutions who are aligned in worldview with the aim of creating solutions to navigate the seemingly inevitable events to come so we can stay put and fight the good fight. @GulagBound and nostr:npub1zleyq5x90ssge0mjf0fquy5dd0n0z3tytqtfddzvgvh0j54e8k2sxypppaseems to be of the same mind.

Can’t States just mine empty blocks? Even if they are securing the network, the are still bringing it all tx to a halt.

That's the hash war phase. It comes when the outlaw period fails. The States mines empty blocks, and the market fights back by increases fees to motivate more hashpower to come online and overpower the censor. It's a little more nuanced than that, but that's the general idea.

What would that do? It would cost about 72 billion dollars a year today to cut the tx rate to a tenth of current assuming other miners kept mining. Transactions will still confirm fees will be juicy. Ecash btw on the same mint would be untouched. Would probably explode. Harder for me to say what Lightning would do. And we’d probably see it coming from a mile away because nobody would be able to buy miners for a long time.

plebs can’t outspend the state on hash power, other states will have to help protect bitcoin if it gets attacked by nation states

It’s coming, see, no one cares Regulations are completely ignored by the community with no pushback. The reason is we will all have to use it illegally anyways, so why bother.

Bitcoin and the State (as we know it) can't both survive, especially the US. With suffient hashpower (of the levels that "Soft War" guy are advocating the Pentagon to acquire), mining empty blocks makes Bitcoin completely useless because transactions can't be put into blocks. The State has nuclear power plants and ASIC fabs (ask the NSA). This will not be an easy fight and it could go either way.

Why bother pushing back or why bother mining empty blocks?

Because states that rely on printed money have a choice: kill Bitcoin or be killed by Bitcoin.

That guy is a little kookie imo. Heavy on big sounding stuff. Loose on details. How much do you think they are willing to spend to dos bitcoin? I can’t see them ever even trying knowing that the entire current US budget would still let transactions with faaat stacks of fees slip through.

Yeah there's something off about him. Budgets probably aren't relevant in a fight to the death, what really matters are capabilities - energy and ASIC production.

Reminder that the US government has spent 8 trillion dollars over 20 years on "the war on terror". It's not that Budget isn't relevant. On the contrary, the racket thrives on unlimited spending. 70 billion a year to "fight shady criminal superhackers sponsored by North Korea and Iran"? That's exactly the type of thing they want.

I hear you and that’s a good point. I think I still disagree. 72B still lets 10% of current txs through! 8T every 20 years would only allow them to bring transactions down to ~2% of current rate. Fees would be &$$&, ecash in a given mint would still be free. I suppose the mining industrial complex would lobby for that money, but we wouldn’t have any boys to immortalize for their sacrificed lives. No football stadium flyovers cuz ASICS are boring. Just data centers consuming loads of electricity, creating relatively few jobs, costing tons. There environmentalists would be absolutely extinct over the amount of CO2 or what have you being pumped into the air/earth Maybe I’m wrong about this. Oh, hey, “they” might actually leverage it to finally commercialize fusion 😆

I just wanted to bring that up. My personal opinion has always been that the status quo is split between: 1. those who are too old to get on the train like Buffet and that other dinosaur partner of his all will simply be swept aside 2. the ones that even today think they can fight this, like some leftist politicians and academics who realize that Bitcoin is inherently anti-State 3. the ones that realize that Bitcoin is inherently anti-state and instead of fighting it want to coopt it. Like BlackRock and JP Morgan. I think the last faction is destined to win.

Bro, I don't know if I can do this

The emancipation of the human spirit is worth the struggle.

Undoubtedly they want to outlaw it. How would that work in practical terms? Can they "mark" "tainted" sats?

Shhhh 😉

Kennedy is a statist who believes in anthropogenic climate change and is pro gun control Shit soup or shit sandwich, vote and choose your flavor but no, no politician is going to "put a stop to the bullshit in the USA"

You've been had, buddy. Don't worry, all of us have been there at some point. Don't hope, just Hoppe.

Now there’s a strategy!

That would be epic!

Bitvm?

Don't do it

Yes.

It's a step toward banning self custody. They want a clean, manageable, non-threatening Bitcoin. It's our responsibility to keep Bitcoin a threat.