Thread

Please let me know if I'm wrong, but if both sides realized this objective truth we could finally take some real moves to reduce spam. Ideally we would transition to some complex client-side-validated scheme like shielded CSV, Tachyon or Intmax2 or whatever (I stopped trying to understand these things deeply since it apparently makes no difference towards our chances of improving Bitcoin). Since none of that is possible we can take the second-best choice: reduce the blocksize, activate BIP-300 and BIP-301, let people use sidechains with these magnificent antispam ultrascaling properties to make actual financial transactions without burdening anyone else with their spam.

Yep, a peer-to-peer electronic spam system just like the whitepaper says.

if a transaction created a UTXO set and that data was lost/pruned, nobody could rebuilt that UTXO so it cant be spent or received, so if you want bitcoin as money to work, you have the cost of storing those unrelated to you and the benefit of being able to spend/receive, thus have bitcoin as a functional system. the transactions in blocks are also needed to reconstruct/validate the chain from genesis. not allowing or having other kinds of data is unrelated and doesnt/shouldnt cause that problem

That is why we also preach hodling, so that people stop spamming the blockspace with their moronic transactions. If you really need to divorce yourself from your bitcoin just pass opendimes and satscards.

The blockchain isn’t spam—it’s the consensus-driven, immutable record of Bitcoin’s movement and spirit. Spammers are the ones who drown out real signals with noise and nonsense. I care about other people’s transactions because they give me price data and cash flow insights. But I don’t care about anything on-chain that doesn’t provide that kind of information. To “spam the chat” is a DDoS attack, not just some arbitrary line about what’s acceptable. Bitcoin works because it’s designed to disincentivize spam. If someone’s pushing to incentivize spam, that feels off. The real question isn’t how to fill block space, but why block space is so cheap. That cheapness is the signal we should be decoding.

That's the point... to point out the nonsense. He's fighting fire with fire here.

Wrong. Spam has 0 value. Monetary transactions are what transfers value.

If blockspace is paid for in conserved energy (satoshis), the transaction is inherently monetary because the act of inscription itself requires irreversible work. In physics, no information is recorded without energy expenditure; therefore, no transaction exists without cost.

Inscriptions are an expoit that the compromised Core devs did not patch intentionally. They rejected Luke's fix. Inscriptions are fixed in Bitcoin Knots. As for the physics, you can expend energy doing 0 value bullshit for example creating spam and you can expend energy creating valuable resources for humanity.

Do you comprehend what is going on with the Core devs and that majority are compromised?

You may have missed Who triggered this change and Why. Hint, Citrea. View quoted note →

From a a different perspective, the word inscription comes from the Latin inscribere: in (“into”) & scribere (“to write”). It literally means to carve into a surface, to make a mark that endures. Every Bitcoin transaction is therefore an inscription in the truest physical sense: energy is irreversibly expended to engrave information into a finite medium, the ledger itself. It is thermodynamic writing. So while one can waste energy on meaningless computation or spam, Bitcoin distinguishes value not by content but by conservation. Only those inscriptions paid for in conserved satoshis, the quantized work of the system persist as structure. Energy without conserved record dissipates; energy committed to the ledger becomes time. This is why every valid transaction is an inscription, and every inscription that pays for blockspace is a monetary act of physics. Every bit has a price. Im not sure if you’re a man of faith, but would putting real human obituaries on the chain be considered spam if the bits are paid in sats? Because I see no second best medium for inscription. Show me another place that won’t forget. Bitcoin is far superior to stone.

I agree Lopp is a bad actor, especially after his bullshit quantum proposal. I’m not here saying what is right or what is wrong regarding protocol. I’m just objectively saying that all transactions are inscriptions, and there literally is no second best medium to Bitcoin.

Now see the definition of scam. The check how many people have been scammed to pay for NFT spam. After that consider the following in your analysis.

I know that, that is why I am trying to argue with you to have in your analysis the consideration that spam has 0 value. And even if someone is paying for it, it does not make it valuable, it makes it a scam. Thats what they are after. Jpegs are spam on the Bitcoin monetary network. See also what Nick Szabo is writing about the cost inferred on all node runners, not only the one that pays for a particular transaction. The big picture goes beyond the physics of the system. These are the inscriptions. This is the Bitcoin Monetary Network. They are not the same.

Selling a JPEG is a scam because nothing is actually owned. On Bitcoin, there are only UTXOs and the satoshis appended to them, the rest is illusion. A JPEG once hashed into the chain is owned by the ledger itself, by conservation, by every validating node. An inscription, however, can still have meaning even if its content has no monetary resale value. Again, writing an obituary into the op_return field is not a scam if the purpose is permanence. The service being sold is not ownership of data, but the guarantee that it will never be forgotten, memory preserved through energy expenditure. What most call a “non-monetary” transaction still carries thermodynamic cost. If satoshis are spent to commit bits to the ledger, then value exists by definition, because the value is conservation itself. The real disagreement is not about the content of transactions, but about who decides what deserves to be conserved, what humanity considers worthy of permanence in the only ledger that remembers forever.

Memecoins are shitcoins and a scam. They have some small value becuase some scammed people paid for them. 99.9% regret it after they get rekt and/or rug pulled. Bitcoin is different and that is why it is valued at $2.2T currently. Again its not hard to come to consideration that spam has 0 value. Also no one was arguing against to possibility to put hashes up to 40 or 80 Bytes in OP_RETURN. 100 000 Bytes of spam is an attack on Bitcoin. Fees plus spam filters are better than just fees. Bitcoin is thermodynamically sound money, not thermodynamically fucked up spam and csam.

That's knot funny