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For the layman Bitcoiner: QC/QT is built on an incoherent theory of fractional commitment, the belief that unmeasured potential states can be treated as real physical states, that superposition is a kind of “double-spending” of existence. All of it rests on a model that never defines what existence or measurement actually is, no definition for time. A theory Bitcoin has been openly falsifying for the last sixteen years without any recognition. The double spend problem is a physics problem. It’s time we actually stand behind Bitcoin and what its physics reveal. Bitcoin is losing the narrative war to a fiat theory of physics. View quoted note →
This is a great way to say it. Quantum is the new alchemy. It appears that whatever these machines are actually doing, if we had a sane theory to describe it, there seems to be a physical limit of something like 100 logical qbits anyway, before the error correction introduces more noise than reduces. Not enough to ever crack a key.
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Quantum is the new alchemy of fiat. It’s alchemy because nothing about its foundational claims is verifiable. The entire enterprise rests on objects “qubits” that no one outside the black box is permitted to observe, measure, or confirm. Their existence is asserted, not demonstrated and their coherence is inferred without proof. Trust down the whole stack. It is fiat physics: an IOU for a particle you are told is real, but that cannot be independently verified without destroying the very claim you are asked to believe. Bitcoin stands in absolute contrast to this. Bitcoin provides public, thermodynamic proof at every step. The entropy spent is measurable. The information produced is auditably conserved. The transformation is irreversible, visible, and verifiable by anyone. Bitcoin grounds its claims in physical commitment. It does not ask for belief; it demands verification. It demands you to verify the proof of conservation of energy and information at each block of time. Quantum computing by comparison is an architecture of trust masquerading as science. Its entire theoretical framework treats unmeasured potentials as real physical states. It assumes simultaneity without defining a quantum of time. It assumes existence without defining a measurement. It treats probabilistic amplitudes as physical superpositions, even though no experiment has ever resolved the smallest unit of temporal change needed to make the word “simultaneous” meaningful, Planck Time. Calling the states of qubits “real” is like calling every unconfirmed transaction in the mempool a spendable UTXO. It collapses the category distinction between potential and actual. It is the same conceptual error as fractional-reserve banking: multiplying an uncommitted base unit by narrative and assumption instead of proof. QT would claim Satoshi did not solve the double spend problem; nonsense. Bitcoin exposes the incoherence of this worldview because it demonstrates how physical reality actually works. No state “exists” without entropy committed. No structure is real without measurable, irreversible work behind it. No timeline emerges without resolving uncertainty into information through thermodynamic expenditure. Anything real can be verified. Bitcoin is the only open system in the world that computes the isomorphism between energy and information in real time. It unifies Boltzmann entropy and Shannon entropy into a single measurable object: a block. Each block is a physical statement about what exists because it is a record of what was thermodynamically committed. That process is observable, verifiable, and independent of anyone’s claims. Quantum computing on the other hand gives you none of this. No proof, no measurement, no conservation. Just promises, grant money, opaque experiments, and the insistence that you should “trust the science,” even though the science has yet to demonstrate a single stable, scalable, independently verified qubit. Bitcoin gives us the first verifiable standard for energy, information, and time and once you have a real standard, you’re no longer obligated to treat unmeasured claims as knowledge. Bitcoin gives you truth because it forces every claim to bear the cost of physical reality. Quantum computing gives you narrative because it cannot survive that cost. If one of these systems is going to rewrite our understanding of physics, it isn’t the one hiding behind closed labs, NDAs, and unverifiable claims. It’s the one proving itself every ten minutes in open daylight. The threat is us listening to their narratives about “upgrades” to what isn’t broken.
PSA: The quantum apocalypse isn't coming A cryptographically-relevant quantum computer is physically impossible: real hardware hits a fundamental back-reaction limit at a few hundred high-fidelity logical qubits due to size-dependent noise from the error-correction process itself. Shor on 256-bit ECDSA requires thousands to tens of thousands of near-perfect ones. The gap is physical and insurmountable. The actual use-cases for “quantum computers” are: - Gassing up investors with science jargon - Building a regulatory moat - Scaring people away from battle-tested open-source cryptography Implementing quantum resistance would be very bad for Bitcoin: - Dilithium2 / Dilithium3 in P2TR - Falcon-512 / Falcon-1024 in P2TR - SPHINCS+-128f in P2TR - ECDSA + Dilithium2 hybrid (legacy/SegWit/Taproot) - ECDSA + Falcon-512 hybrid (legacy/SegWit/Taproot) - New lattice or hash-based spend paths - New QR address formats / commitments - Signature size 9–240× larger - Pubkey size 27–40× larger - Typical spend 15–50× higher fees forever - Witness data 15–50× bigger - UTXO set 10–20× larger within years - Validation time 5–20× slower - Far more complex code, not battle tested - Permanently higher fees (15–50× per tx) - Lightning channel closes 15–50× more expensive - Pruning nodes die (UTXO bloat kills them) - Full-node storage +10–20× in a few years - Increased centralization pressure - Permanent consensus & DoS risk increase - New critical bugs and side-channels Some of the work people are doing to show that we COULD add QR, IF we needed to, is probably helpful to fight the FUD. But don't buy the hype and don't get bullied by the quantum mafia hype machine. #Bitcoin View quoted note →
I don't buy the quantum hype or risk at all
Zsubmariner's avatar Zsubmariner
PSA: The quantum apocalypse isn't coming A cryptographically-relevant quantum computer is physically impossible: real hardware hits a fundamental back-reaction limit at a few hundred high-fidelity logical qubits due to size-dependent noise from the error-correction process itself. Shor on 256-bit ECDSA requires thousands to tens of thousands of near-perfect ones. The gap is physical and insurmountable. The actual use-cases for “quantum computers” are: - Gassing up investors with science jargon - Building a regulatory moat - Scaring people away from battle-tested open-source cryptography Implementing quantum resistance would be very bad for Bitcoin: - Dilithium2 / Dilithium3 in P2TR - Falcon-512 / Falcon-1024 in P2TR - SPHINCS+-128f in P2TR - ECDSA + Dilithium2 hybrid (legacy/SegWit/Taproot) - ECDSA + Falcon-512 hybrid (legacy/SegWit/Taproot) - New lattice or hash-based spend paths - New QR address formats / commitments - Signature size 9–240× larger - Pubkey size 27–40× larger - Typical spend 15–50× higher fees forever - Witness data 15–50× bigger - UTXO set 10–20× larger within years - Validation time 5–20× slower - Far more complex code, not battle tested - Permanently higher fees (15–50× per tx) - Lightning channel closes 15–50× more expensive - Pruning nodes die (UTXO bloat kills them) - Full-node storage +10–20× in a few years - Increased centralization pressure - Permanent consensus & DoS risk increase - New critical bugs and side-channels Some of the work people are doing to show that we COULD add QR, IF we needed to, is probably helpful to fight the FUD. But don't buy the hype and don't get bullied by the quantum mafia hype machine. #Bitcoin View quoted note →
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isn't bitcoin the network that is the safest against that? i don't get why people are freaking out over bitcoin being vulnerable to quantum because all the other systems are 1m times more vulnerable? i feel like people don't understand bitcoin or quantum when they say it's at risk without saying that everything else is more at risk?