Thread

What if a just God revealed himself to humanity and requires repentance? Who lives a good life? We all fall short of His glory.

He is merciful. The gap between those trying and the rest is massive.

The quote from Marcus Aurelius is therefore deceiving my brother!

Meh. If there is to be judgement, it isn't pass/fail on the question of repentance timed properly in a death bed.

Sorry man, this is what is canon: either perfect timing of repentance etc or straight to the lake of fire

Too much fuckery of men over hundreds of decades for me to accept the book as pure truth. We all cherry pick as we're all sinners. I'm assured In my relationship with God that I'm good with my position.

How are you assured?

The whole point of agnosticism is you cannot possibly know what that facts are of the origin of earth and man.

I am blessed, and I feel at peace. I don't know how it gets better than that.

The old canon even worst when their god kill a lot of innocent ppl just because one guy committed a mistake.

Faith is trust, and trust is established through a reasoned assessment and assurance that the object of that faith is trustworthy. Faith is neither blind nor superstitious no wishful thinking nor *only* personal. Reducing faith to merely a personal relationship with Christ that has no real weight of objective truth behind it and no real requirements on the world is antithetical to the Biblical definition of faith and is one of the biggest reasons the West is on the suicidal path it has taken.

Reducing the worlds problems to "y'all mfers need Jesus" negates that the crusades were done in the name of Christ. Jesus was an individual savior, nothing you can do will save your nation or family. Sire I believe all those miracles happened, but there is 0 way to say they objectively happened, so they cannot, by definition, be objective truth. Your "requirements" are works based salvation... Papist go home lol

I'm a reformed Protestant and did not make any claims of works-based salvation. Also, I'm not arguing that Jesus isn't a personal savior. He is. He just isn't a only and merely a savior of a bunch of individuals but of households and peoples and nations as covanental bodies. Also, the events of Scripture, including the miracles, either objectively happened or they didnt. If they didn't, the Bible is untrustworthy and therefore isn't a true faith that should be personally or corporately held to. "If in Christ we have hope in this life only, we are of all people most to be pitied. But in fact Christ has been raised from the dead, the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep." But we do have to reckon with the fact that the Bible's claims are objective claims and its presentation of truth is absolute, and all of them hinge on the resurrection, which did objectively happen. And I can employ reason and logic and historical analysis and courtroom-like evidences to prove it. But it still takes Spirit-filled humility to *believe* the evidences and have faith (trust) that Christ was raised from the dead.

Glad you didn't take my joke personally! I don't think the events of the bible happening matter. For more on this, I'd have to point you to jordan petersons work, Brett Weinstein talks a bit about it too, but there ie evolutionary benefits to acting as if the bible is true even if it's not. Granted, I DO think it's objectively true, (the gospel anyways) but I don't think that's actually important. It takes away from actual testimony to argue with someone that individual miracles happened. There is no objective evidence, pictures, measurements, etc. I feel like it's better to actually walk away from those conversations than engage and argue them, it's evidence that that person is prideful and thinks the world is 100% material and hasn't had a spiritual event to bring them closer to the Lord. These not happening don't make the bible untrustworthy. For example, genesis isn't describing literal creation, but is allegorical. Doesn't make it less important or applicable or trustworthy.

That it was a joke went over my head, and that is probably on me. We can agree to disagree on many of your points here, but I'll confirm the larger principle that choosing which ways are more or less helpful to approach a conversation on matters of faith is a prudent thing to do. I'll briefly make the case though that a testimony of the Christian faith must at least involve the chief miracle of the resurrection. It is the whole basis upon which all the other claims of Scripture rest and upon which personal faith is rooted. It is also probably the easiest to objectovely *prove*.

There is a way to say they happened objectively: direct perception. Unfortunately most of us are still a long ways away from the ability to make that perception. It’s inspiring enough having the perceptions I am already having on the path. PS True faith is that perception only partially conscious.

Kinda...sorta...in a way...not really though. KJV was based primarily on Tyndale's work. Tyndale was executed as a heretic decades before James even became king.

Yes, however, the whole point of questioning something is to arrive at a conclusion. Betting on doubt or remaining in a state of perpetual skepticism provides no real moral foundation or direction. Doubt is fine if it is honest. Otherwise it is blindness. "You cannot go on 'seeing through' things for ever. The whole point of seeing through something is to see something through it. It is good that the window should be transparent, because the street or garden beyond it is opaque. How if you saw through the garden too? It is no use trying to 'see through' first principles. If you see through everything, then everything is transparent. But a wholly transparent world is an invisible world. To 'see through' all things is the same as not to see." C. S. Lewis

Yes! The aliens that 3d printed the earth and everything on it were super clever!!!

Created? Someone? How? I don't see any evidence of simulation theory.

So should i go through the motions if I don't believe? Wouldn't God see through this?

Definitely would. I think people always struggle with faith, no matter who you are. All I can tell you is that I am going through the motions myself and it’s only made me better. And I have more belief than I did before I started.

Believe what? It’s not clear what is at stake.

Perhaps you would develop faith. I was raised going to church and stopped going after I moved out of my parents. I am trying to read the bible for the first time now.

Pascal wants his wager back.

I’m in a similar situation but we didn’t actually go when I was young. So far the faith has been more like developing a muscle over time rather than a 100% on, 100% off type thing. Just my experience.

I kinda feel like worshipping the wrong god would be more offensive to God than just living a decent life and not being a bigot. God is probably more offended by hate from fake Christians towards the rest of humanity than anything else.

Christian god will send you for the flames same as another god follower

All in a days work