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Idk about utxo's opinion but we should be using actual proof of work cryptocurrencies. Bitcoin, doggie coin, Monero, etc. Not lightning, which uses "self hosting" as a euphemism for using a server you control instead of literally self hosting

Idk if utxo will explain but I keep saying this, it can't be self hosted. Lightning is one of those things that uses "self hosting" as a euphemism for "using a server you control." It's not an actual p2p proof of work cryptocurrency like bitcoin

ask anyone who has tried to run an ln node how much sats they lost learning it, especially non-techies

Yeah, I ran an LND node on Umbrel for the whole period where Phoenix left the USA. Not fun. I didn’t lose any sats but it was a pain in the ass, and not worth it imo. As soon as Phoenix came back I went back to that and I’ll probably eventually switch to Ark. The Arkade.money PWA wallet seems cool so far but too early for a daily driver.

Can you explain what you mean about it not being a “p2p proof of work cryptocurrency like bitcoin”. It’s a network of 2-2 multisig contracts on bitcoin. The proof of work is derived from the sats locked up in the contracts. It’s not meant to be a separate cryptocurrency because it’s just a way of using Bitcoin in the end.

Lightning network is "secured" by paying the authorities for bandwidth and electricity and space to let you share control of your servers with them Actual Bitcoin network is secured by paying miners and nodes to actually secure the network

Lightning network channels are secured by the same miners since it’s just users exchanging signed bitcoin transactions out of band. At any point either party in the channel can broadcast the latest transaction and settle on chain. Up until that point it’s the same cryptography that secures all the other UTXOs. You can run a lightning node from home on top of your standard bitcoin node so you don’t have to share control any more than you do for the base chain. For what it’s worth I agree that lightning isn’t ideal especially for beginners but I use it all the time and it mostly works fine. Had my fair share of frustrations with it too.

Bitcoin nodes aren't standard with homes, you can't just run a lightning node or a Bitcoin node from home Worthwhile cryptocurrencies don't require you to rent a node, you just pay when you actually have a transaction and you have actual self custody

Where are you getting the idea you can’t run a bitcoin node or lightning node from home? I personally run a bitcoin node at home and have for years. It’s not even difficult actually. It sounds like you’re not a fan of bitcoin in general? To each their own I guess but to say that you want self custody and that because homes don’t come standard with nodes bitcoin isn’t worthwhile is a contradiction. Running the software is a fundamental part of self custody otherwise you’re trusting other people to process your transactions and to be honest about it.

The internet isn't inherently part of your home. You can "run a node" i.e. have a server run a node in a place where you have a constant internet connection, not wherever you sleep. Or you can rent one remotely that has nothing to do with where you sleep. But you can't "just do it," you can't just "run a node," it's a euphemism for having internet access, electricity, space to put a server, etc. It's worthless when we already had actual P2P proof of work payment ledgers before it was invented. Why would you downgrade to some bank style shit when we already have a decentralized network that defeats the purpose of banks? Bitcoin and Monero and doggie coin let you actually self custody your money

yes

Not mine. I like Bitcoin and doggie coin and Monero, which aren't retarded

monero is super retarded, if it actually had users nobody would be able to run a node, they waste way too much space trying to preserve privacy

You must be super retarded yourself if you're not aware / willing to pointlessly pretend to be unaware Monero actually has users

lol

Is this just another reply where you repeat the thing with trying to pretend you can't tell the difference between 0/1 and a plural amount?

😂😂

Monero is the most easiest to run a node. Haven't seen anything that comes close to the easiness.

Not really Fucking gay story

Lighting has always worked flawlessly for me…

i've been running a node for almost 6 years. i too can say that i've had no issues and works great for me. i've also helped dozens of people over the years troubleshoot and recover funds from their nodes. literally remoting into people's nodes and recovering their funds for them. this is not sustainable. not everyone has a trusted nerd in their pocket. i've also helped countless dozens of people get on-boarded to lightning and struggled to give them solid options because they're nerds like you and i. lightning is hard for most people.

And?

Hahaha AND… Palestine should probably worry more about the Jews than the lightning network… Just saying 🥷

no, it's just useless Bitcoin, Monero, doggie coin, gold, and silver are the best we have

Weak gaslighting attempt, Nazi

Yeah cuz knowledge is racist huh 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

Lightning doesn’t have to be hard lol Zeus already fixed the issue

the node in the phone is great, but it still presents challenges for normies.

Nah it was a challenge to have to pay to open a channel Ecash fixed that The challenging part no longer exists

ecash is nowhere near normie friendly. if lightning via zeus and ecash were easy, why don't we have 1M+ nodes right now? there is still way too much friction.

Education People are not yet aware The friction has been removed No more friction That’s gone

I've lost so many sats to force closed channels on node in the phone apps that it seems like a scam.

When they force close a channel the days go to your on-chain shit As long as you have your seed your good lol

The sats*

there might not be friction for you, but there friction for non-technical people.

I guess But it seems like all u gotta do is download an app lol Anyone with a smartphone is capable of that lol

and yet people say there's no friction and the friction is gone... the fact still remains. node in the phone is great, but it's only great for people that aren't able to run node in the computer. and even then, that's still not great for the vast majority of people.

Opening channels isn't free. You open them only for them to force closed again. No support or accountability from the people making the apps. Literally a scam 🤷‍♂️

which is why i say it's great! it is great that this technology exists. but it's just not roll your face across the phone easy to do yet. it doesn't work 100% of the time without issues yet. it's great, but still has a lot of room for improvement.

Nah I disagree 💯

we know it's not a scam, but we also know that normies will think it is because of these things :(

Your opinion means nothing to me in the face of my own experience, thanks 👍

I would definitely never recommend those services to a friend looking into Bitcoin. On-chain is fine, but lightning has so many caveats and problems I wouldn't risk it.

Your opinion means nothing to me as well Actually blocking u now for being a cunt lol

Ok

Your uninformed and uneducated on the topic apparently Maybe you tried it like a year or 2 ago lol But it’s different now Anyways I’m done letting you ruin my morning Bye

+1 on this. I would have more sats now if the narrative was “use a custodial wallet” rather than “you need to run an ln node or you’re not a real one”. Such bullshit

it's custodial, but Strike or CashApp are great for Lightning.

Ryan speaks the truth. This is the experience of most people who ran ln. Sure, you’re in control, but you lose way more sats that way. WoS never rugged me so far

I thought you were blocking me. If someone disagreeing with you is so offensive, I recommend you do.

💯 I've got a couple friends into Bitcoin. For their purposes, saving, lightning isn't really necessary, on chain is all they need. Hopefully it gets better with time.

Unfortunately neither of those are available for me in Canada.

Nah its self custody And extremely easy Phoenix or Zeus Shilling kyc shit is trash Or Minibits Or npub.cash It’s normie friendly I’ve seen 12 year olds do it no prob.

Cash app is my goto custodial choice, I like that when I spend dollars through it I have it rounding to the nearest dollar and that difference is automatically turned to sats for me.

minibits and npub.cash are not self custody :) phoenix is actually fairly easy, i wil give you that.

coinos, rizful, albyhub... lots of options, none without caveats

that seems to be a recurring theme with lightning: choose your caveat.

I think one of the most damaging things in the Bitcoin space is wilful ignorance of how bad some of the tools actually are. Toxic positivity can be just as bad as the negative version. If you can't admit your problems, they never get fixed.

If you buy via bitkey>cashapp no fees, no spread through December

Absolutely based

Third party custody is not great

All this talk about LN makes me remember the old days when OGs viewed Monero as the silver to Bitcoins gold!! If you plot ahead it really makes more sense to use Monero by the masses since they won’t be able to easily acquire Bitcoin post collapse

Zeus's built in node is quite a nice balance for sovereignty and convenience. Blixt too. Full LND only gives some marginal additional utility, but set up is quite easy these days particularly with Olympus as an LSP. You can get as in the weeds as you want or keep it simple.

(((JEWS))) Of course. Yet again. Everytime.

Jew hater spotted Marcus is a piece of shit like a lot of Christian and Muslims. Bryan Armstrong is way worse but you don’t say anything about his religion Blaming the Jews is a lazy cop out and bitcoiners need to do better

Saved me from: celcius,blockfi, grayscale, FTX, inscriptions (Udi) facebook, google, oracle, pornhub……

Here is another pro tip. Thank me later

Will repeat myself again. Blaming Jews for all the world’s problems is a lazy cop out and bitcoiners need to do better. We should hold ourselves to a higher standard Cope harder and go fuck yourself if you can’t get past your Jew hate and continue to post this Jew hating bullshit

Fuck off jew. I can post whatever i want here. Nigger. Go back to the jew controlled platforms if you cant handle it.

You sure can and I will call you out for being a retard Cope harder and go fuck yourself

thanks man, over the last 5 years i only ran about 20 nodes, built 2 companies on it and made thousands of hours of open source contributions to lightning, but I didn't read this how it works webpage, i'm now educated, lightning rocks!

Glad we could help.

ecash is a centralized custodial IOU altcoin rug factory with the B logo drawn on it in crayon. it's not bitcoin. you are promoting an affinity scam. and if you think zeus is easy you might have autism

hahaha that vid is funny as fck