I am considering enabling Amethyst to write a replaceable kind 1 (new kind:30111) to allow users to edit their past posts at will.
It would work in a similar way Habla News works, but using Kind 1's style of small posts instead of markdown and long-form content of kind:30023.
Of course, we could also write kind:30023 (blog posts) directly, but it would pollute most of the Blogging interfaces with short posts.
What do you all think?
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Can’t comment on the technical implementation you’re discussing with others, but from a user perspective an editable note (ideally time bound, 3min? 10min?) is clearly in demand and a nice feature. Like others I’d like to drill down into a history of previous versions. I don’t think the history should truly disappear.
While it might sound useful, I think, starting with myself, many nostriches got used to the immutability of Nostr notes. Edit history is something else as it keeps the record, but even that might not be needed for shorter posts. Unlike blog posts that are better modified in case of typos and content updates.
I believe the convenient feature of ✏️ #editing past posts will serve as another compelling reason for users to switch from Twitter to Nostr
dumb
Why? Don't you like an idea of editing past posts?
orwellian revision history, fixing typos sure but keep all the notes
My initial reaction was sure, why not. Delete is important, and edit is just like deleting + posting + some UX sugar.
But on the other hand much of Nostr’s power is its simplicity. Adding another kind puts a little more burden on new clients. Maybe good enough delete is good enough. Twitter didn’t have edit for a very long time.
The issue with delete is that some clients dont delete yet. So, if their user is only they end up seeing 2 posts. Which I think it is worse than not showing some new kinds yet
Hm, good point. But I think most of the clients that don’t support delete do so for philosophical reasons. So are they more likely to display the kind 300111 maliciously and not respect the edits or to not show it at all? I think in the long run if 300111 gets traction they will just show it without edits and we’ll be back to square one. It’s an assumption though.
17 years?
Is Twitter really that old? Yikes that makes me feel old.
With technology, I always think if a thing can be done, it will be done. If not Amethyst, some client will eventually do it...
Plurality
It will impose huge overhead on all clients and kill Nostr.
Do you consider replaceable events an overhead?
Yes, they are very annoying to deal with, but that is made simpler by the fact that they are not expected to be displayed in realtime in a constantly updating feed that may or may not be cached locally and/or by relays.
Kind 1 notes are easy to deal with in this "live" scenario: they either exist or they don't. All events always have the same id, so it's easy to match and cache and I'm probably forgetting a dozen other arguments that me and others have given in the past against having editable events.
Event Twitter has a lot of trouble with editable posts, sometimes you are reading a post and it has a message saying "there is a new version", and then you click on that and it doesn't exist anymore or other shenanigans. I don't know how it's implemented internally, but I imagine it wouldn't be too different than this, except for the fact that they have a single codebase.
In Nostr it would either be unusable chaos or everybody would just resort to using the same client.
So do you prefer that we just delete the event and send a new one with dates in the past? I initially didn't want to do that because it would create duplicated events in the feed of clients that don't implement deletion yet.
I think that is bad too, accepting the fact that things don't change is probably the best way, but seems much simpler to implement and not very harmful to clients that don't implement it.
Probably the most honest UI, if you want, would be to have a "nuke" button that tries to delete everything, but decouple that action from the act of creating a new note. Let people manually delete and then make a new one.
Replaceable events suck. Why use them on WikiNostr? Edit history is important.
+1 for decoupling. You can "delete", and then post a new one.
Clients following the delete request can choose how to display it in the UI.
In all other clients, it would be cool if it just looks like a quote tweet of the old note.
==
Benefit of quoting each of the edited versions - you can wee what engagement/comments were there with the specific previous versions of the note.
==
UX-wise, in terms of other users experience (who might have responded/boosted/quoted) your old note - I don't see any clean way how to allow edit without actually NOT hiding the previous versions.
A delete button would be great.
Agree.
+1 for the quote-like paradigm:
View quoted note →
relays wont use it and people will stop using amethyst
already
no
post nsec to kill account
Kills and all yours friend.
🕷️
Thieves and corrupt yours fried.
🕷️
Yours friend
🎚️ 

In and yours friend.
😉
Gagged and yours friend
🪬
After you and yours friend
🌹
License to nostr
🫶
Agree it is good to keep the kind segregated. Makes sense as it will definitely create some noise in the signal. But this will happen one way or the other. The question is what is best. Obviously we want to avoid as many legacy creations as possible. But no one knows the future exactly!
I like @fiatjaf 's take. Let's focus on more usability so we can onboard users with an experience that rivals twatter. Gizmos later.
Great discussions down there 👇
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Terrible idea. What about splitting Amethyst into multiple apps instead?
Code is open. Anyone can fork it and create all those versions. I like one client that does it all.
To me, kind:1 should always be uneditable. It's the whole point. Adding more editing functionality feels like bloat. It makes sense for a blog post, but not for a tiny post.
Yes. Implement editing feature with option to the edit history be visible or hidden (deleted)
Hard no.
I think unnecessary. I like that things cant be edited here, makes it more authentic.
🤙
what about edits that have a history? ie you keep the original note and all edits
I'm not a developer and I'm not paying close attention to what's happening with the evolution of the nostr protocol, so maybe this already exists or maybe it's nonsense, but my understanding is that there's a danger here to bloating the protocol.
My thought is that, without modifying the underlying nostr protocol, is it possible to build a parallel styling protocol that clients can implement in their own way, or choose not to implement? An analogy would be that this could serve sort of like a CSS layer to nostr's HTML?
The solution in this case for editing could be some kind of "tag" that indicates the user intends the post to be "deprecated" and if the user goes back to the post and assigns the tag, the clients can honor it or not using their own implementation of the style for that tag—for example, greying out the text or adding strikethrough?
The idea being that the style layer can be separate from the data protocol—and optional and customized—and that way not bog down the underlying framework?
This also gives the clients some room to flex differentiation in their interpretation of the style tags?
@Vitor Pamplona @fiatjaf
View quoted note →
Se la nuova nota evidenzia ciò che è stato editato sarebbe interessante.
Anche se in realtà habla.news è già ottimo per questo.
Sennò personalmente preferisco l'immutabilità tipo blockchain.
Siamo già liberi di scrivere quello che vogliamo, almeno che ci sia un po' di responsabilità in ciò che scriviamo.
Just thinking:
Maybe a reply to one's own post could be considered as "update" and the clients can then handle this (either per default show the latest update, show full history, etc.
I'm late at the party. I agree with the position of @fiatjaf, @ hodlbod, @semisol, @Cameri🐦🔥 and many others: no new kind for kind-1 edits.
However I like the patch idea, for small edits/addendum. It could be implemented as a simple kind-1 reply with a special tag. This way it would be always visible in the same thread; clients can choose to use it to overwrite the parent and let the user inspecting the history. In this case they should also manage (merge?) replies and reactions.
But to make it usable on every client the patch format should be really simple and understandable in plain text, something like like a quote (>) paradigm. This would also permit to use the edit manually on clients that formerly doesn't support it.
Examples of edit and append:
~the bat is on the table
the cat is on the table
+PS: the original source is xxxxx
I love that my notes are forever just like a #blockchain even with all the typos coming from my new spellchecker-less #android keyboard. It is certainly a good thing for documenting this wild ride into the new frontier of social media and for accountability's sake if we want to be better than X.
View quoted note →
replacing kind1 notes is a bad idea