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Usually these have fees because they are providing non-custodial lightning solutions which have onchain fee cost. Comparing this with a custodial option doesn’t really make much sense. You should compare it with custodial lightning instead, which typically doesn’t have any fees (coinos, wos). The only benefit at that point is privacy for users on the node.

“You should compare it with custodial lightning instead, which typically doesn’t have any fees (coinos, wos). The only benefit at that point is privacy for users on the node.” Looks like you’ve already answered your own question.

true

but do you currently accept token from any mint or from a whitelist? that is the main thing I couldn't get my head around. it sounds like the cashu devs are working on a swap mechanism for wallets so that this is seamless for the user.

I think the main thing to consider is that the sender is scanning a lightning invoice qr code from our mint of choice. They can be spending from any mint or from their lightning balance. The sender pays a ln invoice created by the mint we choose, which then issues us the ecash. We aren't getting sent raw ecash tokens from various mints! The mint has to maintain the liquidity we just get paid and withdraw as we please.

If you are already using a custodial lightning wallet, you can think of them as the same thing but with better privacy.

Let’s say I’m using the Primal wallet. How does someone send me Cashu and how do I send them Cashu? In my wallet, I have sats. This is where I’m confused.

Right .

But potentially much less reliable because you really need to trust the person or entity who’s running the mint will not just shut it down randomly because it’s an unpaid hobby project of theirs, vs. a company offering a custodial wallet as a business.

Here you go ..this tutorial is a bit old but explains how it works

Thanks. I’ll check it out. Where do I buy/get/receive Cashu?

Here you can get a wallet..depending of your device

GitHub

GitHub - cashubtc/eNuts: A Cashu wallet for Android and iOS 🥜🐿️

A Cashu wallet for Android and iOS 🥜🐿️. Contribute to cashubtc/eNuts development by creating an account on GitHub.

The website says this… “eNuts is in early development. Have a look at the list of known issues before you start using the app. The maintainer is NOT a cryptographer and this work has not been fully reviewed. This means that there is very likely a fatal flaw somewhere. Please be aware that there may be unknown bugs, errors, and incomplete features that could cause unexpected behavior or loss of data. Read more.” And this… “eNuts has been temporarily removed from the App Store due to a technical issue.” This is concerning.

Check out this section on that page : Transfer funds to another Cashu wallet: Cashu.me - Web-based Cashu wallet Minibits - Mobile wallet for Android Macadamia - Mobile wallet for iOS

yeah this is a big factor, not sure of any reputable, established mints.

It seems to require extra steps. Some humans are lazy. Others are used to simplicity and convenience. What’s the sales pitch to get people to use it? Is it convincing enough? Some people are skeptical of Bitcoin. How does one get people onboard with Cashu? I’m personally not convinced to use it but someone can change my mind.

Privacy first

Ok but Some people don’t care about privacy. They’re still on Facebook. Is that the main selling point?

yeah pretty much, if you are using a custodial lightning wallet and you’re happy with it, then there’s not any huge benefit to using ecash i see it as an extra value add as a merchant for customers who care about privacy.

It won’t work as a retail tool because merchants need assurance of settlement. Lightning is better for that purpose. If you as a customer want to pay with ecash over Lightning it still works fine, but there’s no reason for a merchant to have to connect to a random mint to receive your payment because it adds unnecessary friction and risk.

Thanks. I get it now. To those who advocate for it, good luck with getting people to use it.

I think it can work like this: View quoted note →

Don't use this wallet, it's unmaintained. Use @Minibits

cashu exists because bitcoin in its current state can't deliver a high level of privacy and a good UX without stripping off its entire security model. cashu sats are literally not bitcoin, they are custodial IOUs with no security whatsoever. it's a custodial altcoin toy. nobody is ever going to do anything serious with it.

Interesting take. Thanks for sharing.

I’ll look into it. I’m still not sold on Cashu.

Ecash is offline p2p token which be minted by a lightning btc custody entity

cashu are ious for sats that get issued by a lightning node called a mint i redeem my ious and the mint pays an ln invoice that shows up as sats in your primal wallet mints are nodes that pay invoices and issue tokens lightning network is the bridge between mints cashu tokens in a mint can be shared without making a lightning payment

Can mints cash out other mints’ cashu tokens into lightning, or are they just paying out lightning and taking on the redemption risk of the token, or ?

Cashu gives new users a free lightning address They can immediately receive sats over lightning wihout a ln channel Once a user has enough ecash they can open a channel That channel can then be closed and those sats are on base chain Cashu lets users work down the layers, not up, which can open huge potential for those with no sats. There is a hardware cost and education to run a lightning node. Better trade offs than a normal custodian Users who share the same mint can have a circular economy inside the mint with no fees and excellent privacy.

The eNuts app is being decommissioned. For anyone who wants to explore ecash, I would recommend starting with Minibits.

mints issue and redeem their own cashu tokens mints settle between eachother via lightning ln sats -> ln -> mint -> cashu token cashu a -> mint a -> ln -> mint b -> cashu b

This is a valid statement… “There is a hardware cost and education to run a lightning node. “ How will it be addressed for the average user? All of this seems cumbersome.

Cashu alleviates those hardware costs. Education can be free. It takes a minute to understand but once it clicks it is a useful tool

This is a good simplified explanation. In my honest humble opinion, it’s still too cumbersome. For the average person, why would they want to deal with an IOU? Recall, they say the main benefit of using Cashu is privacy. All these steps don’t seem worth it. There has to be an easier simplified way. Do people have to run their own node for this? Well good luck with that. The majority of the world don’t even use Bitcoin. People still need to learn about that. Now throw in Cashu. Who is using it like that? For the record, I’m not saying it can’t work in the future. Perhaps it’s ahead of its time. It’s just that Bitcoin doesn’t even have universal adoption. Now people and governments want to use Bitcoin for other things such as ETFs, strategic reserves, capital markets, investments, banks involvement, and other rubbish. 🙄 How does Cashu scale considering Bitcoin is the segue?

I agree that education can be free. Where are those documents and don’t point me to Github? Most people don’t go to Github to get educational materials about products. 🙄

It is quite simple once you take a moment to understand the work flow, use a wallet and understand the terms. It is essentially automated with good ux. You don't have to run a node You get better privacy than with a normal custodian Cashu + nostr can educate and make more people use Bitcoin daily with low to no fees and no need to have hardware or knowledge I was introduced to cashu in real time. I tested the first cashu zaps from minibits on nostr so I have an excellent history of using it and seeing the utility Many who are lightning node runners don't see much value as they are confident with lightning liquidity. Lightning has a chicken and egg problem for new users. Cashu can allow anyone in the world an immediate way to get sats

I learned on nostr and speaking directly with the devs @calle @Minibits @Egge @gandlaf21 @Tim Bouma

Sounds great. Well someone needs to drop a bomb commercial showing how it works and make it convincing. Marketing is valuable. I want to see a 60 second commercial of what you wrote that’s convincing enough to use.

Learn about Cashu - Cashu.space

A collection of educational resources.

& Some more here gandlaf.com

Yes , I know..in that repo are recommended other wallets: Cashu.me - Web-based Cashu wallet Minibits - Mobile wallet for Android Macadamia - Mobile wallet for iOS

E-cash all it is, is when you initiate a lightning payment. The one running The Mint sends the lightning payment on your behalf. That is why it's private.

Thanks. Who runs the mint? Assuming I’m new to e-cash, what is a mint? Let’s assume I’m not well versed on lightning payments. Why are they not private payments?