*Long note on math*
ZF(C) set theory is the basis of modern math and includes the axiom of infinity; something we grant as obvious. "There's no number so big that you can't add 1 to it."
Yet nothing we can observe or measure in reality is infinite. Not the size of the observable universe nor all observable particles in it nor even all possibles states of all observable particles (hot take; see below for explanation).
Should we really use that axiom?
Even the digits of pi canโt be fully observed. Spend all available resources building as many computers as you can and use all matter for computation from now until the heat death of the universe and nothing and nobody will ever experience or observe more than a finite number of digits of pi.
You could argue that we need irrational numbers for algebraic closure. Fine. But even then, in practice on computers or in hand written solutions only finite-precision representations exist. Not a single engineering project in existence relies on full precision of pi or the square root of 2. Yes, even the LHC and LIGO.
"But the ratio of the circumference of a circle and its diameter is pi. That ratio has infinite precision." Well, almost! That assumes a Platonic ideal circle; you're introducing new assumptions even in such a basic concept. Good luck creating such a perfect circle in reality (nothing against the band with MJK). The total curvature theorem that gives us some multiple of pi for any closed loop rewrites integrating over a continuous set so implicitly assumes infinity (ie. infinitely divisible).
What about quantum mechanics? Hilbert spaces as far as the eyes can see! We need a state space rich enough to represent continuous observables like momentum. But that's a circular argument! We claim the observables are continuous but as far as I can tell that's just an assumption. Our theories break down below the planck length which means we can't just assume spacetime is continuous; at best it's a useful approximation.
Continuous spacetime also creates problems like black hole singularities. I think most physicists agree singularities are a flaw in the models and don't represent reality. Quoting Oppenheimer:
"Physically such a singularity would mean that the expression used for the energy-momentum tensor does not take account of some essential physical fact which would really smooth the singularity out. Further ... it is impossible for a singularity to develop in a finite time" - 'On Continued Gravitational Contraction'
And according to Hawking eventually black holes dissipate thus removing the singularity. You can't go from infinite to finite density in finite time yet that's the best our theories have come up with.
We have tools like renormalization to cut out the infinities in some sense and to be honest I don't fully understand the logic there, but it ultimately boils down to using infinities to cancel out other infinities that pop up in our models that, yeah you guessed it, are built on continuous space and therefore more infinities!
In conclusion, as far as I can tell all uses of infinities are useful approximations to make math easier but have quite possibly led us astray.
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โThe total curvature theorem that gives us some multiple of pi for any closed loop rewrites integrating over a continuous setโ
Mustโve had a stroke when typing that line ๐. It shouldโve said:
โThe total curvature theorem that gives us some multiple of pi for any closed loop *requires* integrating over a continuous setโ
love it
can't say i understand it all but i love it nonetheless
It was a fun shower thought!
I was taught that there are multiple types of infinity. Don't ask me to recite what they were.
There are! Once you allow the axiom of infinity you end up with an infinite number of distinct infinities actually; we say that they each have different "cardinality." I had to prove all sorts of statements about infinite sets in a topology course I took years ago but I'm rusty at this point.
A set is said to be infinite if there exists a bijection between itself and a proper subset. So for example, there's a 1-1 mapping between the set of integers and the set of even integers: for each integer multiply it by 2 and you get the evens; for each even integer divide it by 2 and you get the whole set of integers again. That doesn't work for any finite set.
And suppose you have an infinite set, S. Then the set of all subsets of S (called the power set of S) actually has a higher cardinality than S itself and there doesn't exist a bijection between S and its power set even though both are infinite.
However, again all that supposes you accept the concept of an infinity in the first place because only then can you construct all those things. Modern math assumes it as a given.