Thread

πŸ›‘οΈ
Maybe following people is overrated. It's totally doable to use Nostr by just following relays instead. You can get a very nice and well-curated feed today by just browsing wss://nostr.wine or wss://pyramid.fiatjaf.com -- and this is because basically no one even knows or is aware of this mode of doing things and we don't have the relay infrastructure necessary to enable such flows, so it has a lot to improve. Maybe we should really only be following at most 50 people each, only the people we want to ensure we will not lose sight of, and people who have been banned or inhabit a different ecosystem (of relays) than the one we frequent the most. Aside from that just following a bunch of relays, either grouped together or in different tabs.

Replies (20)

πŸ›‘οΈ
Other relays to try today: wss://relays.land/spatianostra or wss://algo.utxo.one or wss://140.f7z.io (again, this is early). Relays that do automatic curation, manual curation, relays that slurp data from others and filter them, relays that belong to closed or closed-ish communities, relays that have weird incentive models to get people to post. There are many unexplored possibilities.
πŸ›‘οΈ
↩ replying to fiatjaf
Just a stupid idea that came to my mind now: If a relay has a bunch of people that follow it it becomes a valuable space too, such that getting the right to publish there becomes valuable if you want your idea to be seen. So we can have something like a relay that charges some money to accept your note -- but also only accepts it if it's really good in order to not lose readers. I don't know, maybe this will end up badly, but I think some variations on such an idea may end up working and even enabling unknown people to get some eyes on some revolutionary idea they had instead of dying poor and unknown while dumb influencers get all the prestige for some stupid garbage. It's not the same thing but this reminds me of
The Listserve
If you had the chance to speak to a million people, what would you say?
 (which could also work as a relay).
πŸ₯œσ …“σ …‘σ …£σ …˜σ …₯σ „²σ …Ÿσ „’σ „Άσ …€σ …•σ „³σ „Ίσ …Ÿσ …”σ „Έσ …‚σ …§σ …“σ …ͺσ …Ÿσ …¦σ „Όσ „’σ „‘σ … σ …’σ …žσ …σ …₯σ …’σ …‡σ …œσ …₯σ …‘σ …‡σ „Ίσ … σ …”σ „Έσ „½σ …₯σ …‰σ „’σ „Άσ …ͺσ …‘σ „³σ „©σ „³σ …‘σ …ˆσ …‚σ …šσ …’σ „’σ …œσ …₯σ …‰σ …ˆσ …†σ …šσ …“σ „’σ „Άσ „ σ …‰σ …ˆσ …ƒσ „²σ …Ÿσ …σ „Άσ … σ …ƒσ „±σ „²σ …σ „²σ …†σ „΄σ …§σ …ƒσ ……σ „Άσ „·σ …‰σ …ˆσ „³σ „·σ …Ÿσ „’σ „Άσ …˜σ „±σ …‡σ „Άσ …ͺσ …•σ „»σ …€σ …’σ „Ήσ …œσ „±σ …©σ ……σ „΅σ …£σ …™σ „Όσ „Έσ …£σ …™σ …’σ …σ „©σ …₯σ …‰σ „’σ ……σ …™σ „Ώσ …™σ „Ίσ …šσ …‰σ „’σ …‰σ „’σ „Ύσ …σ …‚σ …œσ …Šσ „·σ „Ύσ …™σ „½σ …šσ „Ύσ …σ …Šσ …‡σ ……σ „’σ „½σ „’σ …‰σ „ σ „Ώσ …„σ „΅σ …©σ …Šσ …šσ „½σ …©σ „Ύσ „΄σ …σ „€σ …‰σ …σ „Ήσ „€σ …‰σ …„σ …σ …ͺσ „Ώσ „΄σ „½σ „€σ „Ύσ …ͺσ „²σ …σ …‰σ …„σ …˜σ …™σ „½σ …šσ …“σ „£σ „Ώσ „΄σ „Ήσ „’σ „½σ …ͺσ …›σ „ σ „Ύσ …„σ …—σ „€σ „½σ „’σ …‰σ …§σ …Šσ …šσ „½σ „£σ „Ώσ …‡σ „½σ „€σ „Ήσ …™σ …§σ …™σ …Šσ „·σ „Άσ „ σ …‰σ …ƒσ „Ήσ „¦σ „Ήσ …šσ „±σ …©σ „½σ „’σ „Ίσ …σ „½σ „·σ „½σ „’σ „½σ „’σ …Šσ …šσ …‰σ …šσ …›σ …ͺσ „Ύσ „΄σ …‰σ …ͺσ „Ύσ „΄σ „±σ „£σ …‰σ …‡σ …‰σ „₯σ „Ύσ „’σ „΅σ „‘σ …Šσ …„σ …†σ …œσ …Šσ …„σ …‰σ „ σ …Šσ …σ „΅σ „€σ „Ώσ „΄σ „Ύσ …›σ „½σ …„σ „±σ „£σ …Šσ …‡σ …‰σ „₯σ …Šσ …„σ ……σ „‘σ „Ώσ „΄σ …σ „£σ „½σ …σ „½σ „ σ …Šσ …‡σ „Ήσ „₯σ …‰σ …‡σ „Άσ …˜σ …Šσ …‡σ …Šσ …˜σ „Ύσ „΄σ ……σ „₯σ …Šσ „³σ „Ήσ …£σ „Ήσ …žσ …‚σ …˜σ …Šσ „£σ „½σ …™σ „Ώσ …œσ …€σ …”σ …–σ …†σ „‘σ …˜σ …‰σ „‘σ …—σ …˜σ „±σ …€σ …™σ …‰σ „Ίσ …Šσ …©σ …©σ „΄σ „©σ …˜σ …žσ „€σ …’σ …Ÿσ …σ „¨σ „©σ „Άσ …€σ …‚σ …†σ …ˆσ „΅σ „Ώσ …†σ „’σ „©σ …™σ …œσ …˜σ „€σ …‰σ „΄σ …£σ …˜σ „’σ …σ …›σ …—σ „Έσ …‘σ „³σ …σ …Ÿσ „’σ „Άσ …˜σ „±σ …σ „Άσ …ͺσ …•σ „»σ …€σ …’σ „Ήσ …œσ „±σ …©σ ……σ „΅σ …£σ …™σ „Όσ „Έσ …£σ …™σ …’σ …σ „©σ …₯σ …‰σ „’σ ……σ …™σ „Ώσ …™σ „Ίσ …›σ „½σ …šσ …˜σ …™σ „½σ „΄σ „΅σ …©σ „Ύσ „’σ „Ήσ „’σ …Šσ …šσ …œσ …˜σ …Šσ …σ „΅σ …ͺσ …Šσ …šσ …“σ „‘σ …‰σ …šσ …‚σ …›σ …Šσ „·σ …Šσ …œσ „Ύσ „’σ ……σ „’σ „½σ …σ …†σ …œσ „Ύσ …‡σ „΅σ „£σ „½σ „΄σ „²σ …›σ „Ύσ …ͺσ „΅σ „‘σ „½σ „΄σ „½σ „’σ …‰σ …ͺ󠄢󠅛󠄾󠅝󠄢󠅙󠄽σ …ͺσ „Ήσ „‘σ „½σ …„σ „Ήσ „‘σ …‰σ …‡σ „Άσ …˜σ …Šσ „΄σ …‰σ „’σ „½σ …„σ …†σ …˜σ „Ήσ …™σ …§σ …™σ …Šσ „·σ „Άσ „ σ …‰σ …ƒσ „Ήσ „¦σ „Ήσ …šσ „±σ …©σ „½σ „’σ „Ίσ …σ „½σ „·σ „½σ „’σ „½σ „’σ …Šσ …šσ …‰σ …šσ …›σ …ͺσ „Ύσ „΄σ …‰σ …ͺσ „Ύσ „΄σ „±σ „£σ …‰σ …‡σ …‰σ „₯σ „Ύσ „’σ „΅σ „‘σ …Šσ …„σ …†σ …œσ …Šσ …„σ …‰σ „ σ …Šσ …σ „΅σ „€σ „Ώσ „΄σ „Ύσ …›σ „½σ …„σ „±σ „£σ …Šσ …‡σ …‰σ „₯σ …Šσ …„σ ……σ „‘σ „Ώσ „΄σ …σ „£σ „½σ …σ „½σ „ σ …Šσ …‡σ „Ήσ „₯σ …‰σ …‡σ „Άσ …˜σ …Šσ …‡σ …Šσ …˜σ „Ύσ „΄σ ……σ „₯σ …Šσ „³σ „Ήσ …£σ „Ήσ …žσ …‚σ …˜σ …Šσ „£σ „½σ …™σ „Ώσ …œσ …€σ …”σ …–σ …†σ „‘σ …˜σ …‰σ „‘σ …—σ …˜σ „±σ …σ …ˆσ „‘σ …ˆσ „₯󠅄󠄧󠅔󠄑󠄸󠅁󠅓󠅁σ …₯σ …€σ …™σ …œσ „΅σ „Άσ „Όσ …’σ …£σ „»σ „‘σ …žσ „Άσ „Ίσ …†σ „Ήσ …“σ …‘σ „Έσ …–σ „¨σ …šσ „₯σ „¨σ „’σ „Ώσ „Ήσ …“σ …‰σ „σ …Ÿσ „’σ „Άσ …˜σ „³σ „·σ „Άσ …ͺσ …•σ „»σ …€σ …’σ „Ήσ …œσ „±σ …©σ ……σ „΅σ …£σ …™σ „Όσ „Έσ …£σ …™σ …’σ …σ „©σ …₯σ …‰σ „’σ ……σ …™σ „Ώσ …™σ „Ήσ „’σ „Ύσ …ͺσ ……σ …¨σ „½σ …„σ „Ήσ „₯σ …‰σ …„σ „½σ …¨σ …Šσ …„σ …“σ „₯σ „Ώσ „·σ …‰σ „’σ …‰σ …ͺσ …Šσ …σ …Šσ …‡σ ……σ …§σ „Ύσ …„σ „²σ …œσ „Ώσ „·σ „΅σ …©σ „Ύσ …šσ „±σ …ͺσ …‰σ …„σ …˜σ …šσ „Ύσ „’σ „½σ „₯σ „Ώσ …‡σ „Άσ …˜σ „Ύσ „’σ „΅σ …¨σ „½σ …„σ …”σ …›σ …‰σ …„σ ……σ „‘σ …Šσ …σ ……σ „‘σ „½σ „΄σ ……σ …¨σ „½σ …‡σ …†σ …σ „Ύσ „΄σ …‚σ …œσ „Ώσ „΄σ …‰σ „€σ „Ήσ …™σ …§σ …™σ …Šσ „·σ „Άσ „ σ …‰σ …ƒσ „Ήσ „¦σ „Ήσ …šσ „±σ …©σ „½σ „’σ „Ίσ …σ „½σ „·σ „½σ „’σ „½σ „’σ …Šσ …šσ …‰σ …šσ …›σ …ͺσ „Ύσ „΄σ …‰σ …ͺσ „Ύσ „΄σ „±σ „£σ …‰σ …‡σ …‰σ „₯σ „Ύσ „’σ „΅σ „‘σ …Šσ …„σ …†σ …œσ …Šσ …„σ …‰σ „ σ …Šσ …σ „΅σ „€σ „Ώσ „΄σ „Ύσ …›σ „½σ …„σ „±σ „£σ …Šσ …‡σ …‰σ „₯σ …Šσ …„σ ……σ „‘σ „Ώσ „΄σ …σ „£σ „½σ …σ „½σ „ σ …Šσ …‡σ „Ήσ „₯σ …‰σ …‡σ „Άσ …˜σ …Šσ …‡σ …Šσ …˜σ „Ύσ „΄σ ……σ „₯σ …Šσ „³σ „Ήσ …£σ „Ήσ …žσ …‚σ …˜σ …Šσ „£σ „½σ …™σ „Ώσ …œσ …€σ …”σ …–σ …†σ „‘σ …˜σ …‰σ „‘σ …—σ …˜σ „±σ „₯σ …–σ …†σ …€σ …σ „€σ …šσ …ˆσ …•σ …žσ …‰σ „»σ „σ „»σ „Όσ „Έσ „¨σ „±σ …„σ …ƒσ „±σ …œσ …›σ „£σ …“σ …ͺσ …σ „Ώσ „Έσ …Ÿσ „΅σ „Ίσ …’σ „Ίσ …’σ …™σ „΄σ …‘σ …‘σ ……σ „©σ „»σ „Ύσ …Ÿσ „’σ „Άσ …˜σ „΅σ „·σ „Άσ …ͺσ …•σ „»σ …€σ …’σ „Ήσ …œσ „±σ …©σ ……σ „΅σ …£σ …™σ „Όσ „Έσ …£σ …™σ …’σ …σ „©σ …₯σ …‰σ „’σ ……σ …™σ „Ώσ …™σ „Ίσ …˜σ …‰σ …‡σ …‰σ …¨σ …Šσ …šσ …›σ „€σ „Ύσ „΄σ …—σ „€σ …Šσ „·σ ……σ „ σ „Ύσ …„σ …‚σ …σ …Šσ …šσ …—σ „€σ …‰σ …ͺσ ……σ …§σ „½σ …„σ „±σ …ͺσ „Ύσ …„σ …œσ …›σ „½σ „΄σ …”σ …˜σ …Šσ „΄σ „½σ …¨σ „Ύσ …σ „Άσ …šσ …Šσ …„σ …‰σ …¨σ …Šσ „΄σ …σ „₯σ …‰σ …σ ……σ „’σ …‰σ …„σ „Άσ …›σ „Ύσ „’σ „΅σ „’σ „Ύσ …‡σ „Ύσ …œσ „½σ „΄σ …σ „£σ …Šσ …„σ …“σ …¨σ „Ύσ …„σ …œσ …›σ „Ήσ …™σ …§σ …™σ …Šσ „·σ „Άσ „ σ …‰σ …ƒσ „Ήσ „¦σ „Ήσ …šσ „±σ …©σ „½σ „’σ „Ίσ …σ „½σ „·σ „½σ „’σ „½σ „’σ …Šσ …šσ …‰σ …šσ …›σ …ͺσ „Ύσ „΄σ …‰σ …ͺσ „Ύσ „΄σ „±σ „£σ …‰σ …‡σ …‰σ „₯σ „Ύσ „’σ „΅σ „‘σ …Šσ …„σ …†σ …œσ …Šσ …„σ …‰σ „ σ …Šσ …σ „΅σ „€σ „Ώσ „΄σ „Ύσ …›σ „½σ …„σ „±σ „£σ …Šσ …‡σ …‰σ „₯σ …Šσ …„σ ……σ „‘σ „Ώσ „΄σ …σ „£σ „½σ …σ „½σ „ σ …Šσ …‡σ „Ήσ „₯σ …‰σ …‡σ „Άσ …˜σ …Šσ …‡σ …Šσ …˜σ „Ύσ „΄σ ……σ „₯σ …Šσ „³σ „Ήσ …£σ „Ήσ …žσ …‚σ …˜σ …Šσ „£σ „½σ …™σ „Ώσ …œσ …€σ …”σ …–σ …†σ „‘σ …˜σ …‰σ „‘σ …—σ …˜σ „±σ …£σ …€σ …σ …Ÿσ „±σ …¨σ „Ήσ ……σ …†σ „Άσ …™σ …—σ „Ώσ „Έσ „»σ …£σ …ˆσ …œσ …€σ „’σ „·σ …‘σ „©σ …•σ …šσ …›σ „Όσ …σ …šσ „Ώσ „½σ „§σ …†σ „Ώσ „¨σ … σ …„σ …‚σ „Άσ …§σ „²σ … σ „½σ …Ÿσ „’σ „Άσ …˜σ „·σ „³σ „²σ …˜σ …“σ „£σ …™σ …’σ …‡σ …©σ „Ίσ …σ „½σ …œσ „²σ „Όσ „Ήσ …™σ …¨σ „§σ „Ήσ …σ „₯σ …¦σ …’σ …σ „Ύσ …œσ „Ήσ …šσ …Ÿσ …™σ …Šσ …‡σ „Ύσ …›σ „Ύσ „΄σ „Ήσ …©σ …‰σ …ͺσ „Ήσ „₯σ „Ώσ …„σ „Άσ …›σ „½σ „·σ „Ύσ …σ „Ύσ „΄σ ……σ „£σ „Ύσ …„σ „Ίσ …σ „½σ „΄σ „Ίσ …˜σ „Ύσ …„σ …σ …ͺσ „½σ …ͺσ …Šσ …˜σ „½σ „’σ „Άσ …œσ …Šσ „΄σ …›σ …§σ …Šσ …‡σ „½σ „ σ …Šσ …‡σ „Ίσ …šσ „Ύσ …„σ …‰σ „₯σ „Ύσ „’σ „½σ „€σ …Šσ …σ …‰σ „£σ „Ώσ „΄σ …“σ „£σ „Ώσ „΄σ …›σ „₯σ …Šσ …šσ „±σ „ σ „½σ „΄σ …‰σ „‘σ „Ύσ „³σ „Ήσ …£σ „Ήσ …σ …‚σ …˜σ …”σ „·σ „΅σ …™σ „Ώσ …™σ „Ήσ …§σ „½σ …šσ „Ύσ …™σ …Šσ …šσ „²σ …šσ „Ύσ …šσ „Ύσ …σ …‰σ „’σ „Ήσ „₯σ „½σ …ͺ󠅁󠄒󠄽σ …ͺσ …σ …§σ „Ύσ „’σ „Άσ …σ „Ώσ …„σ …”σ …˜σ „Ύσ …‡σ ……σ „‘σ …Šσ …‡σ ……σ „’σ „Ύσ „·σ …Šσ …˜σ „Ώσ „΄σ …—σ …ͺσ …Šσ „΄σ „΅σ …§σ „Ύσ „’σ …†σ …σ „Ώσ …‡σ ……σ „‘σ „Ύσ …„σ …—σ „ σ „Ύσ …ͺσ „Ίσ …šσ „Ύσ „·σ …†σ …™σ „Ώσ …‡σ „Άσ …˜σ …‰σ …‡σ …†σ …σ …‰σ …„σ …σ „‘σ „Ώσ …‡σ …σ …™σ „Όσ „³σ „Ίσ „ σ …‰σ …‡σ …”σ …ͺσ „Ήσ …šσ … σ …’σ …ˆσ …ˆσ „‘σ …”σ …‰σ …‡σ „Ύσ …‰σ „Ήσ …σ „Όσ …”σ „Ίσ „Ίσ …€σ „Ύσ „£σ „€σ „©σ …‰σ …ƒσ …Ÿσ „΅σ „·σ …™σ …„σ …€σ …σ „ σ „£σ „σ …œσ „΅σ …‘σ …ˆσ …£σ …‘σ …–σ …‚σ „»σ „Έσ …šσ …£σ „³σ …’σ …•σ …”σ „Ίσ „±σ „½σ …†σ „½σ …˜σ …‘σ „Ύσ …˜σ …‰σ …‚σ …˜σ „±σ …‰σ …ˆσ „Ύσ „€σ …‘σ „‘σ …£σ …™σ ……σ „΄σ „Ίσ …σ …ƒσ …©σ „Ήσ …£σ …•σ …©σ „Ίσ …₯σ …’σ „’σ „₯σ …šσ …Šσ …ƒσ „Ήσ „¦σ „Ήσ …šσ …†σ …σ …Šσ …„σ ……σ „‘σ „½σ …‡σ „΅σ „₯σ „½σ …ͺσ „Άσ …σ „Ύσ …‡σ „Ίσ …šσ „½σ „΄σ …˜σ …œσ „Ώσ …„σ „΅σ …ͺσ …‰σ „’σ „½σ „’σ „Ώσ …„σ „±σ …©σ „Ύσ „΄σ „½σ …§σ …‰σ …σ ……σ …©σ „Ώσ …‡σ ……σ „’σ „Ύσ „·σ ……σ „€σ „½σ „΄σ …σ „ σ „½σ …„σ …σ „’σ „½σ „΄σ …Šσ …›σ …‰σ …‡σ ……σ …ͺσ „½σ „·σ „΅σ „£σ …‰σ …šσ „²σ …σ …Šσ …šσ „½σ „₯σ „½σ „’σ „Ύσ …›σ „Ύσ „΄σ …›σ …™σ „Όσ „³σ „Ίσ …›σ …‰σ …ˆσ …‚σ …˜σ „Ήσ …šσ …Ÿσ …™σ „½σ „΄σ „Ήσ …ͺ󠅉󠅝󠅉󠅧󠅉σ …ͺσ …‰σ …ͺσ …Šσ …σ „Ύσ …™σ „Ώσ …„σ „½σ „ σ „Ύσ …šσ „½σ „ σ „½σ „΄σ …”σ …˜σ …Šσ …šσ …›σ „£σ …‰σ …„σ …†σ …œσ „Ύσ …‡σ …†σ …œσ „Ύσ …šσ …‚σ …σ …‰σ …„σ …—σ „€σ „½σ „’σ …σ …¨σ „½σ „΄σ …”σ …œσ …Šσ …šσ …œσ …œσ „Ύσ …„σ ……σ „€σ „Ύσ „΄σ …“σ …©σ …‰σ …ͺσ …‚σ …œσ …‰σ …šσ …œσ …˜σ …‰σ …‡σ „Άσ …œσ …Šσ …σ „΅σ „ σ „Ύσ …„σ …œσ …›σ „Ήσ …™σ …§σ …™σ …”σ „·σ „Άσ …žσ …“σ …©σ „Ήσ „¦σ …‡σ „‘σ „‘σ „©σ …ˆσ …‡σ „Άσ …šσ …‡σ „³σ „΅σ „΄σ …•σ …¨σ …”σ ……σ „»σ „½σ ……σ „»σ …‚σ „³σ „Ίσ …¦σ „¨σ …’σ „₯σ …†σ …™σ ……σ „‘σ „’σ …ˆσ …’σ …σ …Ÿσ „Άσ „’σ …σ „Ίσ …£σ „Ώσ …”σ „Ίσ „€σ „»σ …—σ …¨σ „Έσ …—σ …ˆσ …Šσ „³σ ……σ „½
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↩ replying to npub1fd0t...jal4
as i see it, the issue is about UX subscribing, or blocking seeing events from authors is simple enough, but it doesn't assign trust, or distrust. it does, sorta, but sorta doesn't. the problem is about how do you impute trust without burdening the user with excessive input on every single one of them to add at least one bit of trust/distrust value to it i think the solution is that you analyse the user's interactions, and assign a score based on which of their follows they respond to the most, and from that, you have a much better proxy for trust, without adding complexity to the UI. it also has analytical uses in the sense that you can define a filter that selects from the data gleaned from some specified set of users, and then modulates that based on their interaction levels with them and sets a threshold or a probability of including a given event in a feed as defined by that group. this group can also then be defined by the user's own follow and interaction history. if there was an algorithm that i would like to have on my feed, that would be it
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↩ replying to α΄›Κœα΄‡ α΄…α΄‡α΄€α΄›Κœ ᴏꜰ α΄ΚŸα΄‡α΄‹α΄œ
also, people can be perverse and follow and interact with people to troll them. this is another layer of how to build such an algorithm, but much harder to evaluate. something that would require an LLM classifier to evaluate the positive/negative nature of these interactions to add a third dimension to the algorithm
There needs to be a new type of interface with relays that can request various feeds from a single relay. A relay operator may want to have multiple different feeds for different users. I don't think it makes sense to expect much curation when asking a relay for its entire recent database. Sure, this can be solved by relay software that runs multiple relay fronts behind the scenes, but IMO there needs to be a way to request a list of curated feeds from a relay. There needs to be some way to differentiate between a firehose feed and a curated feed, with relays being able to provide both in a way thats easier and more discoverable than a separate subdomain for each feed.