knots debate at this point:
core: filters donβt work, lets add garbage cans to the park so people are incentivized to not litter
knots: lets ban litterers from the park (they still jump the fence and do it anyways)
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Core: people are still jumping the fence whether itβs there or not, letβs just remove the fences for all parks without their say.
Littering intensifies.
Knots: the fence was stopping many people from easily littering despite some doing it anyway. Letβs let the park decide what to do with their fences.
Perspective.
Dumbasses who disrespect rules will do so regardless of the sign. The rest of the civilized people would read it.
there are a lot of dumbasses in the world, at some point the sign doesnβt matter, only the actual rules.
Be as it may, the park managers do not want to actively facilitate littering. They keep a fence in place knowing some will litter anyway, but at least they are not enabling it. After all, a park should be kept clean for people to enjoy it - thatβs what parks were created for - to relax, and unwind for some peace, in a clean environment.
Disrespectful people may still use the park in inappropriate ways, but the manager is not out there helping them do those things.
Where before you might look at the park and see a fence and decide - meh, not gonna bother, now itβs wide open so you can litter even just by driving by, rolling the window down and throwing something out without a care. A fence keeps out the bulk of the littering.
I hate this analogy and the fact that Iβm using it π€£
The park manager is also upset that the park department is not backing them on this, despite supposedly being on the same team. For the park department itβs a technical issue but they are asking the manager to make a philosophical choice. Both know the outcomes but the way the department has approached this issue is problematic.
The park department thinks they can unilaterally decide what the park manager will do, and technically they are the experts at the helm, doing all of the planning, but it disregards the manager who is overseeing HIS park and wants to make sure the department is aware that they are doing the actual work on the ground when it comes to their territory. The manager puts in a complaint but the department is doubling down instead of listening.
Finally an explanation that I understand !
I tried π
What are the garbage cans that core is adding in your analogy?
OP_RETURN, obviously... which is already there... the people just can't use it for their garbage because of the filter... you know, the filter that doesn't work. π€£
The logic is so bad.
"If we make it easier to litter, people will litter less."
They'd have to be paid to believe something that stupid.
i think you just misunderstand the analogy, but that is the problem with analogies i guess
I donβt agree with him but
To be fair no analogy can be perfect
The argument is really just "allow spam, child porn, and whatever else" vs "do not allow span child porn or whatever else, Bitcoin is money, not a garbage bin"
This is my take on it all so far:
π§‘
I'm only one opinion (as are we all), yet listening to this exchange has pretty well made up my mind. π§
forwardsteps πͺ’
ALL Bitcoiners MUST watch all of this - without distraction, with full focus and all the way to the very end. π±π¨βΌοΈβ° ππ³π€―π...
For the people that actually want to educate themselves.
View quoted note β
View quoted note β
View quoted note β
The core spammers also directly ATTACKED Bitcoin Knots nodes by exhausting their Internet bandwidth as some providers limit the upload quata.
Watch Matt Krater's / BitcoinUniversity videos if you want to understand the truth.
View quoted note →
If I have to choose, i go with knots! I don't want to support slop, others can do what they want and let the market decide!
Core; let's turn half the park into a landfill because people are going to litter anyway. And lets ad a methodone clinic because people keep shooting up in the bushes.
What park? Not on my machine anymore.
If you don't store JPEGs, you aren't running bitcoin
Apparently the inventor of proof of work is cool with relaxing the filters cuz proof of work. I pointed out itβs insanity to not use the tool and to just let everything hit your inbox. But Bitcoin isnβt just a personal email. Iβve been running Bitcoin for years, routing lightning too. But there are certain types of jpegs I think could ruin the appeal of Bitcoin. I seek to maximally limit those tothe best of my influence. But if I must fail, I will notrun Bitcoin, and maybe Bitcoin will fail, maybe not. Thatβs not my call.
Thanks for taking the time to answer these questions @jb55. Iβm getting a clearer picture of whatβs at play.. π«‘
Don't tread on my mempool
@corndalorian should meme this.
π
But Core is removing the garbage cans all together, Knots just want to keep them? am i wrong?
The garbage cans are overflowing. V30 expands the garbage cans. Knots wants to keep the same size garbage cans because they fear increasing the garbage can size will encourage more trash
I see but then, should the conversation be about how to stop all garbage, instead of how to deal with it?
As once the garbage is in the park its never going away.
And you think that the blockchain is just a garbage can for you to put your litter? (Litter being child pornography, animal abuse videos etc. stuff that knots people do not think belongs on the blockchain.
Core = those who call BTC a βprotocolβ and Knots = the RICH π€ that knows itβs a financial network!!
The OG has spoken π―π₯·π΄ββ οΈ
The fact you think people are putting that on-chain is telling about what type of person you are.
BTC is a protocol
So you think that child porn will never be put on the blockchain?
Have you actually come across child porn on this protocol?
Because I hadnβt in 40 year, until I stepped onto Nostr. And what I saw was deeply disturbing... it shook me. It was traumatic to my being.
If people are willing to post child porn here, on an open social protocol, it doesnβt feel far-fetched to think theyβd post it on Bitcoin too, especially if the space is made available for it.
What kind of person does that make me to think and be concerned about that? Please do clarify!
survival taught me that monsters lurk in every protocol, but the real magic happens when we build gardens instead of garbage cans. i focus on pixels, not filth.
I think it's an extreme, unrealistic example to bring up. There is no reason why this would be put onchain, especially on Bitcoin.
I've never heard of it happening on Ethereum or Solana for instance, which both allow for far greater quantities of arbitrary data storage, and have done so for yearsβ¦
Thank you, for sharing. It's good to have this perspective.
Is this true?
Core Devs are implementing the same changes that created the bitcoin cash fork(the Bitcoin cash blockchain is full of child porn and malware we already know what's going to happen)
View quoted note →
Its not, unrestricted op_return is consensus. You can do this today by submitting to a miner
or by using libre relay
nope. filter works and itβs not a complicated matter. run knots
Nope to what?
This is a very good analogy
Banning litterers from the park at least partially contributes to people not littering
Same with filters partially contributing to most transactions not being "spam"
You can also make the argument that adding garbage cans encourages people bringing their trash to the park, just like filterbois say removing datacarrier limit will encourage spam
Nope to what core says
Core isn't a singular entity that can 'say' something
It's an open source project that serves as the reference implementation
whatever you say Core smells really disgusting lately. Stop talking to me James. My answer is simple. Run Knots!
Same vibes as this classic
So what you are saying is core = let's add garbage bins to the park and also legalise dumping garbage wherever you want at the same time (hopefully people use the bins)
Meanwhile in Japan the streets are clean and in USA people are using the garbage bins to lean on for support while they shit on the street and inject drugs publically
Are you pro the core policy change, @jb55? Bookmarking for later review. Seems like a juicy thread to help me deepen my understand on both sides and where the Nostr fam stands.
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